[B-Greek] Eph 1.13 - PISTEUSANTES
Jerry Austin Reimer
jerry at lsm.org
Sun Sep 14 15:40:22 EDT 2008
Ordinarily, as you say, the time of the aorist participle is antecedent to
the time of the action of the main verb but there is nothing marked as to
how much time has elapsed. The time can be a nano second or an extended time
(death reigned). Theological agenda will come into play here as to the
duration because there is nothing in the grammar itself that resolves the
issue. I prefer immediacy or as close to simultaneity as possible but, as I
said, that is according to my theological persuasion and not because I can
prove it by the structure in question. Aoristic activity does not define
what is inside of the dot which is used as a kind of graphic device for the
aorist tense (point or punctiliar). In the real world there is no such thing
as point action without elapsed time (even a snapshot takes time) albeit the
time elapsed may be very brief. Aorists just make an undefined statement and
leave it to the translator/expositor to disambiguate the distance or the
time involved. "Christ died" is aorist in 1 Corinthians 15: 3. We know from
other sources that inside of this dot there were several hours of elapsed
time. However, the aorist tense used is not what tells us how much of the
clock was used. This information comes from another source.
Jerry Reimer
-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org
[mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of J.M. Pauw
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 7:40 AM
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Eph 1.13 - PISTEUSANTES
Excuse me, this posting is from
Michel Pauw
Van Lodenstein College, Amersfoort
The Netherlands
----- Original Message -----
From: J.M. Pauw
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sunday, September 14, 2008 2:34 PM
Subject: Eph 1.13 - PISTEUSANTES
Different translations of Ephesians 1:13 can give rise to a theological
discussion about the time of being sealed with the holy Spirit.
The discussion is about the aorist PISTEUSANTES.
Normally an aorist participle is being translated as precedent to the main
verb, being ESPHRAGISTHÈTE in this verse, which direct our understanding of
this passage to a situation of 1. first believing and 2. after believing
being sealed with the Spirit. So - for example - the KJV ('after that ye
believed') and the NIV ('having believed').
Now in Holland people work on the revision of the old Statenvertaling
(Dutch equivalent of the KJV) and they translate this verse as follows:
'in Hem bent u ook, toen u tot geloof kwam, verzegeld ...'. This can be
translated as 'in Him you are also, when you came to belief, sealed ...'.
So, what is - grammatically - your opinion about this translation of
'when' in stead of 'after', making the sealing with the Spirit simultaneous
with the coming to belief in Christ? For sure the question is not about the
theological consequences of both translations, for I know them very well,
but it's about the grammatical foundation of each translation.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
www.jmpauw.nl
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