[B-Greek] 1 John 4:2
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Mar 5 05:17:26 EST 2010
On Mar 5, 2010, at 2:34 AM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
> The best I could determine from my meager library, J.R.W. Stott is an authoritative source for this view in the 20th century. Older works; H. Alford on ELHLUQOTA "The perfect gives a present endurance of a past fact." B.F. Westcott " ... who's coming is an abiding fact." But only J.R.W. Stott draws the explicit inference "The perfect tense ... seems to emphasize that the flesh assumed by the Son of God in His incarnation has become his permanent possession."
>
> Martin Culy, (1,2,3, Jn pp101,147) gets embroiled in other issues first with Wallace and then Porter. Out of the frying pan into the fire. When you have to choose between Wallace and Porter, you are between a rock and a hard place.
>
> The question lingers, what about Alford, Westcott and Stott. These men were not dummies. Has the "enduring result" of the perfect become passé?
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
> On Mar 4, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2010, at 7:18 AM, Womble Singer wrote:
>>
>>> It has been pointed out to me that 1 John 4:2 has "erchomi" in the perfect
>>> and that Greek perfect implies not only completion but also ongoing acton:
>>>
>>> 1 John 4:2 εν τουτω γινωσκετε το πνευμα του θεου παν πνευμα ο ομολογει
>>> ιησουν χριστον εν σαρκι εληλυθοτα εκ του θεου εστιν
>>>
>>> Does the ongoing quality of Christ's (first) coming encompass how he came
>>> (in the flesh) or is it restricted to the fact that he came as being
>>> something that will never change?
>>>
>>> Or are we saying that in the past Jesus came and continued to be present for
>>> some time?
>>
>> 1John 4:1 Ἀγαπητοί, μὴ παντὶ πνεύματι πιστεύετε ἀλλὰ δοκιμάζετε τὰ πνεύματα εἰ ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν, ὅτι πολλοὶ ψευδοπροφῆται ἐξεληλύθασιν εἰς τὸν κόσμον. 2 ἐν τούτῳ γινώσκετε τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ· πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ ὁμολογεῖ Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν, 3 καὶ πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ μὴ ὁμολογεῖ τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν· καὶ τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ τοῦ ἀντιχρίστου, ὃ ἀκηκόατε ὅτι ἔρχεται, καὶ νῦν ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἐστὶν ἤδη.
>>
>> 2John 7 Ὅτι πολλοὶ πλάνοι ἐξῆλθον εἰς τὸν κόσμον, οἱ μὴ ὁμολογοῦντες Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί· οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ πλάνος καὶ ὁ ἀντίχριστος.
>>
>> 1John 4:1 AGAPHTOI, MH PANTI PNEUMATI PISTEUETE ALLA DOKIMAZETE TA PNEUMATA EI EK TOU QEOU ESTIN, hOTI POLLOI YEUDOPROFHTAI EXELHLUQASIN EIS TON KOSMON. 2 EN TOUTWi GINWSKETE TO PNEUMA TOU QEOU· PAN PNEUMA hO hOMOLOGEI IHSOUN CRISTON EN SARKI ELHLUQOTA EK TOU QEOU ESTIN, 3 KAI PAN PNEUMA hO MH hOMOLOGEI TON IHSOUN EK TOU QEOU OUK ESTIN· KAI TOUTO ESTIN TO TOU ANTICRISTOU, hO AKHKOATE hOTI ERCETAI, KAI NUN EN TWi KOSMWi ESTIN HDH.
>>
>> 2John 7 hOTI POLLOI PLANOI EXHLQON EIS TON KOSMON, hOI MH hOMOLOGOUNTES IHSOUN CRISTON ERCOMENON EN SARKI· hOUTOS ESTIN hO PLANOS KAI hO ANTICRISTOS.
>>
>> I noticed that J.R.W. Stott, (1,2,3 Jn, Tynd.Com.) tries to get some Christological milage out of the perfect ELHLUQOTA in 1 John 4:2. What ever we affirm about the perfect ELHLUQOTA should also be affirmed concerning EXELHLUQASIN in 4:1. John is confessing hOTI POLLOI YEUDOPROFHTAI EXELHLUQASIN EIS TON KOSMON.
I think that the perfect tense in the Koine is often little different from the aorist, and I tend to think that is the case in this sequence: EXELHLUQASIN and ELHLUQOTA are not significantly different, it seems to me, from EXHLQON and ELQONTA: it is the factuality of the coming that is affirmed.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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