[B-Greek] 1 John 4:2
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Fri Mar 5 10:30:18 EST 2010
I don't know whether we can answer all the questions purely on a grammatical basis and this may be one. Doctrines and confessions and rhetoric and irony (quotation with an attitude) do funny things to grammar. The criterion by means of which δοκιμάζειν DOKIMAZEIN (“testing”) is to be carried out is given in v 2: ἐν τούτῳ γινώσκετε τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ EN TOUTWi GINWSKETE TO PNEUMA TOU QEOU (“by this you know the spirit of God”). Γινώσκετε GINWSKETE (“you know”) is probably best understood as an indicative, just as in 3:20 the readers are reminded of the knowledge which they possess by inference from the preaching of John and the apostles. It is the knowledge that πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ ὁμολογεῖ Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν PAN PNEUMA hO OMOLEGEI IHSOUN CRISTON EN SARKI ELHLUQOTA EK TOU QEOU ESTIN (“every spirit which confesses Jesus Christ as having come in the flesh is of God”). I don't see that there would be any semantic distinction between aorist and perfect in terms of the quality of the action of Christ's "coming in the flesh." False teachers dispute this belief/knowledge in 2:22, when they deny ὅτι Ἰησοῦς…ἔστιν ὁ Χριστός hOTI IHSOUS ... ESTIN hO CRISTOS (“that Jesus is…the Christ”) that is, they deny that the Christ, whom they also revere as the bringer of salvation, has appeared in the fleshly Jesus. According to John he has come ἐν σαρκί EN SARKI (“in the flesh”), something to which he attests from first hand knowledge (1:1-3) with the word ἐφανερώθη EFANERWQH. Against heretical docetism (?) he affirms that one who makes the right confession is: ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν EK TOU QEOU (“he is of God”). That is, the affirmation that the CRISTOS has ELHLUQOTA EN SARKI is about denying something and affiriming something else. That thing the false teachers say is the CRISTOS and they say is distinct from JESUS is really one and the same. It is not so much about the idea that Jesus came to earth and stayed a while (that is certainly true), but it is the counter affirmation against the denial that the CRISTOS came in the flesh. If there is any semantic distinction between aorist and perfect here, it would seem to be one of emphatic affirmation.
Yancy Smith, PhD
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
yancy at wbtc.com
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On Mar 5, 2010, at 4:17 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:
> On Mar 5, 2010, at 2:34 AM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>> The best I could determine from my meager library, J.R.W. Stott is an authoritative source for this view in the 20th century. Older works; H. Alford on ELHLUQOTA "The perfect gives a present endurance of a past fact." B.F. Westcott " ... who's coming is an abiding fact." But only J.R.W. Stott draws the explicit inference "The perfect tense ... seems to emphasize that the flesh assumed by the Son of God in His incarnation has become his permanent possession."
>>
>> Martin Culy, (1,2,3, Jn pp101,147) gets embroiled in other issues first with Wallace and then Porter. Out of the frying pan into the fire. When you have to choose between Wallace and Porter, you are between a rock and a hard place.
>>
>> The question lingers, what about Alford, Westcott and Stott. These men were not dummies. Has the "enduring result" of the perfect become passé?
>>
>> Elizabeth Kline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 4, 2010, at 12:43 PM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mar 4, 2010, at 7:18 AM, Womble Singer wrote:
>>>
>>>> It has been pointed out to me that 1 John 4:2 has "erchomi" in the perfect
>>>> and that Greek perfect implies not only completion but also ongoing acton:
>>>>
>>>> 1 John 4:2 εν τουτω γινωσκετε το πνευμα του θεου παν πνευμα ο ομολογει
>>>> ιησουν χριστον εν σαρκι εληλυθοτα εκ του θεου εστιν
>>>>
>>>> Does the ongoing quality of Christ's (first) coming encompass how he came
>>>> (in the flesh) or is it restricted to the fact that he came as being
>>>> something that will never change?
>>>>
>>>> Or are we saying that in the past Jesus came and continued to be present for
>>>> some time?
>>>
>>> 1John 4:1 Ἀγαπητοί, μὴ παντὶ πνεύματι πιστεύετε ἀλλὰ δοκιμάζετε τὰ πνεύματα εἰ ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν, ὅτι πολλοὶ ψευδοπροφῆται ἐξεληλύθασιν εἰς τὸν κόσμον. 2 ἐν τούτῳ γινώσκετε τὸ πνεῦμα τοῦ θεοῦ· πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ ὁμολογεῖ Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐν σαρκὶ ἐληλυθότα ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ ἐστιν, 3 καὶ πᾶν πνεῦμα ὃ μὴ ὁμολογεῖ τὸν Ἰησοῦν ἐκ τοῦ θεοῦ οὐκ ἔστιν· καὶ τοῦτό ἐστιν τὸ τοῦ ἀντιχρίστου, ὃ ἀκηκόατε ὅτι ἔρχεται, καὶ νῦν ἐν τῷ κόσμῳ ἐστὶν ἤδη.
>>>
>>> 2John 7 Ὅτι πολλοὶ πλάνοι ἐξῆλθον εἰς τὸν κόσμον, οἱ μὴ ὁμολογοῦντες Ἰησοῦν Χριστὸν ἐρχόμενον ἐν σαρκί· οὗτός ἐστιν ὁ πλάνος καὶ ὁ ἀντίχριστος.
>>>
>>> 1John 4:1 AGAPHTOI, MH PANTI PNEUMATI PISTEUETE ALLA DOKIMAZETE TA PNEUMATA EI EK TOU QEOU ESTIN, hOTI POLLOI YEUDOPROFHTAI EXELHLUQASIN EIS TON KOSMON. 2 EN TOUTWi GINWSKETE TO PNEUMA TOU QEOU· PAN PNEUMA hO hOMOLOGEI IHSOUN CRISTON EN SARKI ELHLUQOTA EK TOU QEOU ESTIN, 3 KAI PAN PNEUMA hO MH hOMOLOGEI TON IHSOUN EK TOU QEOU OUK ESTIN· KAI TOUTO ESTIN TO TOU ANTICRISTOU, hO AKHKOATE hOTI ERCETAI, KAI NUN EN TWi KOSMWi ESTIN HDH.
>>>
>>> 2John 7 hOTI POLLOI PLANOI EXHLQON EIS TON KOSMON, hOI MH hOMOLOGOUNTES IHSOUN CRISTON ERCOMENON EN SARKI· hOUTOS ESTIN hO PLANOS KAI hO ANTICRISTOS.
>>>
>>> I noticed that J.R.W. Stott, (1,2,3 Jn, Tynd.Com.) tries to get some Christological milage out of the perfect ELHLUQOTA in 1 John 4:2. What ever we affirm about the perfect ELHLUQOTA should also be affirmed concerning EXELHLUQASIN in 4:1. John is confessing hOTI POLLOI YEUDOPROFHTAI EXELHLUQASIN EIS TON KOSMON.
>
> I think that the perfect tense in the Koine is often little different from the aorist, and I tend to think that is the case in this sequence: EXELHLUQASIN and ELHLUQOTA are not significantly different, it seems to me, from EXHLQON and ELQONTA: it is the factuality of the coming that is affirmed.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
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