[B-Greek] 1 John 4:2

Iver Larsen iver_larsen at sil.org
Fri Mar 5 07:48:13 EST 2010


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Womble Singer" <womblesong at googlemail.com>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 4. marts 2010 18:18
Subject: [B-Greek] 1 John 4:2


>I am studying the coming of Christ in the flesh in order to determine if it
> is possible to determine whether or not Christ continues to have flesh after
> his ascension to heaven.
>
> It has been pointed out to me that 1 John 4:2 has "erchomi" in the perfect
> and that Greek perfect implies not only completion but also ongoing acton:
>
> 1 John 4:2 εν τουτω γινωσκετε το πνευμα του θεου παν πνευμα ο ομολογει
> ιησουν χριστον εν σαρκι εληλυθοτα εκ του θεου εστιν
>
> Does the ongoing quality of Christ's (first) coming encompass how he came
> (in the flesh) or is it restricted to the fact that he came as being
> something that will never change?
>
> Or are we saying that in the past Jesus came and continued to be present for
> some time?
>

I would accept this last option. He came and stayed for some time, but there is
no implication that this state will never change.
The aorist normally describes an action as completed. You could say that both
the beginning and end point are in view. So the aorist of "come" would focus on
the actual arrival as an accomplished fact.
The perfect usually has the additional nuance of an ongoing activity, so there
is no focus on the end point. This does not mean that the activity or state will
continue forever.

Let me take an example with the same verb:

Mrk 9:13  ἀλλὰ λέγω ὑμῖν ὅτι καὶ Ἠλίας ἐλήλυθεν, καὶ ἐποίησαν αὐτῷ ὅσα ἤθελον
ALLA LEGW hUMIN hOTI KAI HLIAS ELHLUQEN, KAI EPOIHSAN AUTWi hOSA HQELON
but I am telling you that indeed Elijah has come (and stayed for a while), and
they did (and completed) to him what they were wishing/planning.

The "Elijah" here is John the Baptist, and at the time of speaking he is dead.

In 1 John the author is saying that not only did Jesus come into this world as a
human being, but he lived on earth as a human being for some time. John
emphasizes that they were able to see, hear and touch him (1 Jn 1.1).
in 1 Jn 5:6 the aorist is used for Jesus coming into the world, because there 
the
focus is on how he came, not on whether he stayed for some time.

Iver Larsen






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