[B-Greek] GENOMENOS in Phil. 2:8

Blue Meeksbay bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Fri Mar 12 14:22:45 EST 2010


Hi  Dr. Conrad:
 
Your wrote: All this frantic consultation of all the translations as a means to get at the sense of the Greek!
 
For myself, I’ve adapted a portion of Matt. 18:16, “in the mouth of two or three witnesses [let] every word may be established.” :>)
 
You wrote: It says nothing about "continuation" in a "state" of obedience.
 
I may be missing something, (I probably am since you disagree), but cannot a stative sense be marked by certain parameters? For instance, EGENOMHN in Rev. 1:18, “I was dead.” Did not he *continue* in the single event of death until he arose?  (And I do not want to get distracted by Rev. 1:18. It was just the first example that popped into my mind.)
 
Therefore, could not the *single event* of the aorist be the incarnation? In other words, Paul was simply emphasizing the obedient mindset of the Lord in his incarnation?
 
Please realize, I am not bound to this *interpretation,* I was just wondering what it is about this participle that causes translators to see it so differently.
 
With Regards,
 
Blue Harris




________________________________
From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Fri, March 12, 2010 10:23:04 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] GENOMENOS in Phil. 2:8

On Mar 12, 2010, at 1:02 PM, Blue Meeksbay wrote:
> KAI SCHMATI  hEUREQEIS  hWS  ANQRWPOS  ETAPEINWSEN  hEAUTON GENOMENOS  hUPHKOOS  MECRI QANATOU, QANATOU DE STAUROU.  Phil 2:8 (or 2:7b-8)
>  
> I am wondering if the aorist participle GENOMENOS in this verse can be understood in a stative sense – i.e. “being” – “…he humbled himself, *being* obedient until death, even death of the cross.” I take the particle MECRI as indicating this state continued all the way till death. 
>  
> Many English translators prefer to see GENOMENOS as “becoming,” which makes the obedience dependent on his act of humbling.  
>  
> “And being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross.”  RSV
>  
> Others prefer to understand the act of humbling to simply be a manifestation of an obedient act… as is shown by the ESV. 
>  
> “And being found in human form, he humbled himself *by* becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross.” ESV
>  
> I prefer to understand his act of humbling to be based on his obedient state or attitude.  Let me give a paraphrase to explain what I mean.
>  
> “And being found in human form, and because of his obedient mindset that was his until death, he humbled himself, even to the death of a cross.” 
>  
> The only English versions I could find that came close to this thought is the New Century Version –
>  
> “And when he was living as a man, he humbled himself and was fully obedient to God, even when that caused his death—death on a cross.”
>  
> As far as other languages, (if I can trust Google translate), the German “Hoffnung für Alle” comes close –
>  
> “Er erniedrigte sich selbst und war Gott gehorsam bis zum Tod, ja, bis zum schändlichen Tod am Kreuz.”
>  
> “He humbled Himself and God was obedient unto death, even to the shameful death on the cross.” (Google translate).
>  
> And the “Het Boek” of the Netherlands seems to convey a similar thought.
>  
> “Herkenbaar als mens, vernederde Hij Zich en gehoorzaamde tot het uiterste, zelfs tot in de dood aan het kruis.”
>  
> “Recognizable as human, He humbled Himself and obeyed to the utmost, even unto death on the cross.” (Google translate).
>  
> It seems, from looking at most translations, this understanding of  GENOMENOS with this stative sense of “being” is a minority view, but can anyone see a reason why it should be disallowed?

All this frantic consultation of all the translations as a means to get at the sense of the Greek! When each one is, obviously, an interpretation of what the Greek says/means. GENOMENOS is an aorist participle and points to assumption of the obedient stance as a single event. It says nothing about "continuation" in a "state" of obedience but rather points to "obedience" as characterizing the one who ETAPEINWSEN hEAUTON.


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)


      


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