[B-Greek] Another County heard from (was 1 Tim. 3:6)
Mark Lightman
lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Thu May 6 21:29:10 EDT 2010
George asked
<Why would a neophyte be more likely than a seasoned veteran
to fall
into judgement like that assigned to the Devil ? It seems
far more
likely that the neophyte would be more likely to be led astray.>
Hi George,
The idea may be that a neophyte might have the same sort of pride
that led to the Devil's fall. Amplified has a note to Isaiah 14:12ff. which
seems very apt to me.
I just checked about 10 translations and all but one are either
ambiguous or take it as an objective genitive. Only Goodspeed
takes it as an subjective genitive ""..incur criticism from slanderous
people."
So it's not as close as Hayes-Tilden after all. There are counties
out there yet to be heard from.
Mark L
FWSFOROS MARKOS
________________________________
From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>; Mike Burke <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 11:19:10 AM
Subject: Re: Another County heard from (was [B-Greek] 1 Tim. 3:6)
One must not only read texts in light of the (possible) grammatical constructions found therein but also in light of what makes sense. Why would a neophyte be more likely than a seasoned veteran to fall into judgement like that assigned to the Devil ? It seems far more likely that the neophyte would be more likely to be led astray.
george
gfsomsel
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
_________
________________________________
From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; Mike Burke <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 10:11:08 AM
Subject: Re:Another County heard from (was [B-Greek] 1 Tim. 3:6)
George wrote
<μὴ νεόφυτον, ἵνα μὴ τυφωθεὶς εἰς κρίμα ἐμπέσῃ τοῦ διαβόλου.
MH NEOFUTON, hINA MH TUFWQEIS EIS EMPESHi TOU DIABOLOU
TUFWQEIS (TUFOW) indicates becoming foolish or conceited. If you look at Job and Rev 12 you will note that "the Satan" is an accuser as in a prosecuting attorney in a lawsuit. It is therefore referring to being misled by the one who attempts to accuse man before God. The genitive is therefore a subjective genitive>
Hi, George,
On the other hand, Satan is also the archetypal example of someone who is judged, condemned and destroyed.
"The judgment that the devil will have to deal with with." The genitive is therefore an objective genitive.
Mike wrote
<Does the Greek text lend itself more to one thought or the other?>
Hi, Mike,
Yes, in the same way that the election of 1876 lent itself to one party
or the other other. "Another county heard from..."
Mark L
FWSOROS MARKOS
Φωσφορος
________________________________
From: Mike Burke <michaelgburk at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, May 6, 2010 8:15:20 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] 1 Tim. 3:6
When Paul says that an overseer "mustn't be a new convert, lest he become conceited and fall to the judgment of the devil," is the thought that he might fall under the same judgment as the devil (as in NIV), or that he might be accused by the devil?
Is it possible to say one way or the other?
Does the Greek text lend itself more to one thought or the other?
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