[B-Greek] EAN MH and/or searching in Logos4

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sun Mar 13 18:17:55 EDT 2011


Does this cover what you want?

Stated as it is, Paul is able to make a nearly blanket statement and draw 
attention to the very narrow exception at the same time. The only rationale he 
provides for the mutual depriving is for the purpose of prayer. This removes any 
room for using sexual deprivation as a bargaining chip in a relationship. Doing 
so would expose the couple to temptation from Satan because of a lack of 
self-control. The counterpoint and the point appear to be equally relevant. The 
negation + restriction create a very close connection between the two elements, 
attracting attention to the restriction that it would not otherwise have 
received.
Example 39 :: 2 Timothy 2:5
(Bἐὰν δὲ καὶ ἀθλῇ τις, οὐ στεφανοῦταιB) ἐὰν μὴ (Aνομίμως ἀθλήσῃ.A)
(BAnd also if anyone competes he is not crownedB) unless (Ahe competes according 
to the rules.A)
The grammatical complexity of this verse is rarely captured in English 
translations. The key idea is that no one is crowned unless he competes 
according to the rules. The ascensive καί (translated as “also”) serves to more 
closely connect this illustration of competing with the previous   p 111  
illustration about soldiering in v. 4. The primary purpose of the counterpoint 
is to state that one who competes is not crowned, even though this is not 
completely true. How could one be crowned if they did not compete? The apodosis 
provides the restriction that makes the counterpoint true: the need to compete 
lawfully.

Runge, Steven E. A Discourse Grammar of the Greek New Testament: A Practical 
Introduction for Teaching and Exegesis, pp 110-11. Bellingham, WA: Logos 
Research Systems, Inc., 2010.
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Jeffrey T. Requadt <jeffreyrequadt_list at hotmail.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; Biblical Greek List 
<b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 3:10:56 PM
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] EAN MH and/or searching in Logos4


That is precisely the section I looked at, and saw nothing about “but” in the 
sense of, “not this, but rather this” for EAN MH. I agree with you about the 
“unless.” English has lots of ways of expressing different shades of exception, 
including the word “but” on occasion, I suppose, but I’m looking for specific 
instances of contrast rather than condition. I am trying to look in ATR, but 
that is confusing as well.
 
From:George F Somsel [mailto:gfsomsel at yahoo.com] 
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2011 3:02 PM
To: Jeffrey T. Requadt; Biblical Greek List
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] EAN MH and/or searching in Logos4
 
I would guess that your passage is either Jn 15.4 or Gal 2.16 since they are the 
only two passages I find which fit that description (ἐὰν μὴ + prep [EAN MH + 
prep]).  Did you look carefully at BDAG?  How about
 
ⓒw. other particles
α.ἐὰν καίeven ifGal 6:1; likew. ἐὰν δὲ καί(POxy 472 II, 7) but if 1 Cor 7:11, 
28; 2 Ti 2:5. ἐὰν δὲ καὶ παρακούσῃbut if the pers. refuses to listenMt 18:17.
β.ἐὰν μήif not, unlessw. pres. subj. ἐὰν δὲ μὴ ᾖ ἀξίαMt 10:13; cp. Lk 13:3; J 
3:2f, 5, 27. Mostly w. aor. subj. ἐὰν μὴ p 268 περισσεύσῃMt 5:20; 6:15; 12:29; 
18:3; 21:21; Mk 3:27; 4:22 (s. KBeyer, Semitische Syntax im NT, ’62, 131); J 
4:48; 6:44; 7:51; Ro 10:15; 1 Cor 9:16; 14:6; unless, without ἐὰν μὴ αὐτὸ πίωMt 
26:42.W. fut. ἐὰν μὴ μετανοήσουσινRv 2:22.
 
s.v. ἐάν
 
The "unless" under ⓒβ seems fairly similar to your "except."  
 
george
gfsomsel 
 
… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.
 
- Jan Hus
_________ 
 
 

________________________________

From:Jeffrey T. Requadt <jeffreyrequadt_list at hotmail.com>
To: Biblical Greek List <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sun, March 13, 2011 2:39:56 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] EAN MH and/or searching in Logos4

I'm trying to learn more about the use of εαν μη EAN MH. I have run across a
passage in which some interpreters/translaters take it as a simple contrast,
i.e. "but" in English. I have the print edition of BDAG, so I can't copy and
paste, but it only gives the sense of "if not, unless, without." I would add
"except" to that list in certain contexts. The passage I am looking at
(which I don't want to name simply because it has some emotionally-charged
theological opinions attached to it) has EAN MH followed by a prepositional
phrase. My question for the general list is, are there any concrete examples
in Koine Greek of EAN MH being used to contrast things rather than as a
condition or an exception. The condition/exception seems to me to be the
most normal for EAN MH, so that's why I'm looking for concrete examples of
when that would not work or be natural. On a related note, I'm having a
terrible time with Logos 4 trying to search for all occurrences of EAN MH
followed by a prepositional phrase, since I never learned all these
linguistic/syntax terms, and apparently I'm not allowed to do a simple
graphical query search like in Logos 3. If someone knows how to do this, and
can walk me through it with an email/video, and/or can do it for me (I would
prefer the former option), please let me know.



Jeffrey T. Requadt

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Teacher, Dietz Elementary School

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

7575 E. Palma St.

Tucson, AZ 85705

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(520) 731-4000



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