[B-Greek] Arethas and Paul in 2Thes 2,2 - both proleptic ?

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Mon Mar 28 17:00:53 EDT 2011


I would tend to the view that in Re 1.3 that is precisely what is intended.


Μακάριος ὁ ἀναγινώσκων καὶ οἱ ἀκούοντες τοὺς λόγους τῆς προφητείας καὶ τηροῦντες 
τὰ ἐν αὐτῇ γεγραμμένα, ὁ γὰρ καιρὸς ἐγγύς. 

MAKARIOS hO ANAGINWSKW KAI hOI AKOUONTES TOUS LOGOUS THS PROFHTEIAS KAI 
THROUNTES TA EN AUTHi GEGRAMMENA, hO GAR KAIROS EGGUS. 


 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Peter Streitenberger <ps2866 at bingo-ev.de>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Mon, March 28, 2011 12:30:07 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Arethas and Paul in 2Thes 2,2 - both proleptic ?

Dear Carl, dear Friends,

thank you so much for your help, Carl ! That brings me a step in the right 
direction in understanding this phrase.

I wrote:
> Is ENESTHKEN in both cases a proleptic Perfect ? That means the events are 
>still future.
That point was my main interest in comparing Arethas and Paul. I found another 
parallel that brought me to the idea of a prolepic usage of ENESTHKEN at Arethas 
and Paul (in 2Thes 2,2): Cyrillus wrote (Comm. in XII Prop. min., 1.188.16): 
"ENESTHKEN hH THS ANTAPODOSEWS hHMERA". I think the context makes it clear that 
hHMERA is still future here, as Cyrillus writes (a sentence above): "EGGUS hH 
DIKH".

By the way: Arethas quotes 2Thes 2,3 before he adds the passage I mentioned. "MH 
TIS hUMAS EXAPATHSHi KATA MHDENA TROPON. hOTI EAN MH ELQHi hH APOSTASIA PRWTON, 
KAI APOKALUFQHi hO ANQRWPOS THS hAMARTIAS, hO hUIOS THS APWLEIAS." Maybe this 
context can give a hint.

That's why I'll think the following translations make sense:
- that the day of the Lord is just at hand (ASV)
- as if the day of the Lord were at hand (DRA)
- as though the day of Christ were at hand (GNV)
- as though the daye of Christe were at hande (PNT)
- as though the daye of Christ were at honde (TNT)
- as that the day of Christ is at hand (WEB)

So I'm not absolutly sure the rendering "the day of Christ is here now" is right 
here.

Thank you for further help !
Yours
Peter, Germany

----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: "Peter Streitenberger" <ps2866 at bingo-ev.de>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Arethas and Paul in 2Thes 2,2 - both proleptic ?



On Mar 28, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Peter Streitenberger wrote:

> Dear Friends,
> 
> I'm reading a passage from Arethas (Fragm. in Epist. II ad Thess, 661.15): 
>"SUNUPAKOUETAI TAUTA TOIS PROKEIMENOIS· MHDEIS hUMAS EXAPA THSHi hOTI ENESTHKEN 
>hH hHMERA PRIN TAUTA GENHTAI TOTE THN APISTIAN TWN ANQRWPWN hO DIABOLOS EISHGEN"
> 
> I wanted to compare it with 2Thes 2,2: "hWS hOTI ENESTHKEN hH hHMERA TOU 
>CRISTOU"
> 
> Is ENESTHKEN in both cases a proleptic Perfect ? That means the events are 
>still future.

Isn't this simply, in the case of 2 Thess 2:2 a proposition that is being set 
forth by others (that "the day of Christ is here now") and that Paul disputes?
And in the case of the Arethas, it's a direct citation of the passage from 2 
Thess. The enclosing hOTI should make it clear that this is a citation, I think.

> 
> My other question is the exact meaning of "SUNUPAKOUETAI TAUTA TOIS 
>PROKEIMENOIS" - I can't handle the semantics and the syntax.

I think this is simply saying, "This (TAUTA) is consistent with/in accordance 
with/implicit in  (SUNUPAKOUETAI) what has been set forth previously
(TOIS PROKEIMENOIS -- PROKEIMAI serving as the perfect passive for PROTIQHMI).


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)



---
B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
B-Greek mailing list
B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek



More information about the B-Greek mailing list