[B-Greek] Arethas and Paul in 2Thes 2,2 - both proleptic ?

Peter Streitenberger ps2866 at bingo-ev.de
Mon Mar 28 15:30:07 EDT 2011


Dear Carl, dear Friends,

thank you so much for your help, Carl ! That brings me a step in the right 
direction in understanding this phrase.

I wrote:
> Is ENESTHKEN in both cases a proleptic Perfect ? That means the events are 
> still future.
That point was my main interest in comparing Arethas and Paul. I found 
another parallel that brought me to the idea of a prolepic usage of 
ENESTHKEN at Arethas and Paul (in 2Thes 2,2): Cyrillus wrote (Comm. in XII 
Prop. min., 1.188.16): "ENESTHKEN hH THS ANTAPODOSEWS hHMERA". I think the 
context makes it clear that hHMERA is still future here, as Cyrillus writes 
(a sentence above): "EGGUS hH DIKH".

By the way: Arethas quotes 2Thes 2,3 before he adds the passage I mentioned. 
"MH TIS hUMAS EXAPATHSHi KATA MHDENA TROPON. hOTI EAN MH ELQHi hH APOSTASIA 
PRWTON, KAI APOKALUFQHi hO ANQRWPOS THS hAMARTIAS, hO hUIOS THS APWLEIAS." 
Maybe this context can give a hint.

That's why I'll think the following translations make sense:
- that the day of the Lord is just at hand (ASV)
- as if the day of the Lord were at hand (DRA)
- as though the day of Christ were at hand (GNV)
- as though the daye of Christe were at hande (PNT)
- as though the daye of Christ were at honde (TNT)
- as that the day of Christ is at hand (WEB)

So I'm not absolutly sure the rendering "the day of Christ is here now" is 
right here.

Thank you for further help !
Yours
Peter, Germany

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: "Peter Streitenberger" <ps2866 at bingo-ev.de>
Cc: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, March 28, 2011 8:55 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Arethas and Paul in 2Thes 2,2 - both proleptic ?



On Mar 28, 2011, at 10:33 AM, Peter Streitenberger wrote:

> Dear Friends,
>
> I'm reading a passage from Arethas (Fragm. in Epist. II ad Thess, 661.15): 
> "SUNUPAKOUETAI TAUTA TOIS PROKEIMENOIS· MHDEIS hUMAS EXAPA THSHi hOTI 
> ENESTHKEN hH hHMERA PRIN TAUTA GENHTAI TOTE THN APISTIAN TWN ANQRWPWN hO 
> DIABOLOS EISHGEN"
>
> I wanted to compare it with 2Thes 2,2: "hWS hOTI ENESTHKEN hH hHMERA TOU 
> CRISTOU"
>
> Is ENESTHKEN in both cases a proleptic Perfect ? That means the events are 
> still future.

Isn't this simply, in the case of 2 Thess 2:2 a proposition that is being 
set forth by others (that "the day of Christ is here now") and that Paul 
disputes?
And in the case of the Arethas, it's a direct citation of the passage from 2 
Thess. The enclosing hOTI should make it clear that this is a citation, I 
think.

>
> My other question is the exact meaning of "SUNUPAKOUETAI TAUTA TOIS 
> PROKEIMENOIS" - I can't handle the semantics and the syntax.

I think this is simply saying, "This (TAUTA) is consistent with/in 
accordance with/implicit in  (SUNUPAKOUETAI) what has been set forth 
previously
 (TOIS PROKEIMENOIS -- PROKEIMAI serving as the perfect passive for 
PROTIQHMI).


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)






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