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Sri:
Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:

> I disagree to this to quite some extent. This is purely subjective 
> and is based on the perspective. Once again, I guess, Shri 
> Soundararajan has told us the story of the Gaudia Vaishanavas that 
> he had heard, but, I guess he didn't tell us the intent behind or 
> the audience that the Gaudia mutt targets at. Saying "maya" Sita 
> may look like advaitic philosophy only if seen from the 
> philosophical perspective. When it comes to philosophies, 
> Ramayana/Mahabharatha 

Perception is true/real and so is this world. If one denies the 
existence of the "reality" then he belongs to the class of advaitin
(he need not be an advaitin in strict sense). Anything that is not 
real is "pseudo". If it is not a "real" sita,then it is a 
pseudo/falso/imaginary sita. So I said "it" has the touch of 
advaitham in this context. As already pointed out by Sri SriRama 
quoting Sri Vacana BhUShaNam,the purpose of IthihAsAs and purANAs are 
only to elucidate the moot points in brahma kANda and even among the 
two it is only ithihAsAs which has a superior hold. Now the question 
comes "what does the veda teach?" If veda teaches the actual 
relationship between the Ishvara,sentient and non-sentient,then every 
other secondary texts(smrthi,ithihAsAs,purANAs)should support or 
atleast try to support that if not they(latter) have to be rejected. 
To me,the introduction of "mAyA" sita violates this very basic 
principle/thathvam. A lesser brain may be satisfied with such an 
answer but a brain which is hungry for real knowledge can not be 
satisfied with the answer as the answer is arbitrary and hence not 
unique. 


> I request someone to clearly post on what the Gaudia mutt has tosay 
> on this subject and I feel it is not right on our part to even 
> analyse on this unless we understand the appropriate intent as this 
> might immediately give a wrong impression about another tradition / 
> school of thought.

I attended the program too and they played the drama but fortunately 
not this episode of mAyA sita. Otherwise I would have been the first 
person to question. I have read Sri Prabhpada's BG,tenth canto of 
Srimad BhAgavatham. In Gaudiya Vaishnavism(GV),Krishna is the 
SUpreme/brahman and everything else comes from Him. We chant hare 
rama hare krishna and they do the reverse because of this. The 
scripture they quote for this is brahma samhita which says 
that "there is no one greater than Krishna". You can refer to 
Prabhupada's own words(who is in the acaraya lineage in GV)BG X.2. 
page no 505. Again it is Sri Prabhupada's own words "chant this 
mahamanthram 16 rounds daily,follow the regulative principles and you 
will go back to Godhead/Krishna's abode". It is precisely for 
this "nama" sankIrthanam,they say that SisupAlA attained mOksham(you 
will see this explanation in the 10th canto of Srimad BhAgavatham).
GV has taken ideas from other vaishnava cults like ours,and madhwa. 
BTW in the brahma sampradaya(starts from Lord Narayana), upto 
vyasadeva, the acaryas are same for both madhwas and gaudiyas after 
that it bifurcates into two separate sects namely madhwa and sukadeva
(gaudiya) sect and Chainthanya mahaprabhu comes under Sukadeva. 
Recently I heard that Sri Prabhupada has even translated "mukunda 
mAlA" of our Sri KulashEkhara AzhvAr, which is a hit in ISKCON.

> Probably the Gaudia mutt addresses the foreigners i.e non indians:) 
> For them, it might probably make sense to propagate a good image of 
> Sita, otherwise, people would suspect her purity up-front. For 
> example, Valmiki clearly says that Ravana touched Sita and held her 
> hair and grabbed her and took her away. But, Kamban does not say 
> this. He does not want to project Sita as impure for the readers up-
> front. The intent is not to use his creativity and hide thehistoric 
> event, but to make the appropriate message reach the appropriate 
> audience. So people at the atheist level may have to go through 
> these kind of things to first believe god exist or whatever and 
> then as they believe they get more interested and try to find out
> the correct information and get into the next inner circle and so
> on and finally get into the innermost. 

It was Sri Prabhpada in 60's or 70's popularised the teachings in US. 
But GV was existing prior to this incidence. Foreigners came to our 
country and ruled but didn't take any of our religion. If Sri 
Prabhupada is a true disciple in the acarya lineage obviously the 
same reason must have been given by his predecessors too. If not "the 
disciplic succession" is broken and hence can not be claimed 
as "authentic". Sri Prabhupada can not introduce his own ideas to 
suit "some foreigners". Your point is not valid in the long run. 
SriRama couldn't change Ravana(otherwise there wouldn't have been a 
Ramayana), SriParthasarathy could not change the mind of duryOdhana
(otherwise there would not have been a mahabharatha)and EmperumAnAr 
also could not change everybody. So let us not forget about 
"nirhetuka krpa" of the Lord. You can't change an atheist/agnostic/ 
theist(of higher intellect) by giving some "loose" reasoning.

> For those who are already born and brought 
> up with the Ramanuja Sampradaya, there is no need to even listen to 
> any other sampradayam. For ex, I wouldn't even bother to attend a 
> meeting/lecture from ANYONE else other than from those greatleaders 
> from our sampradayam and this is what, to my knowledge, is expected 
> of every sincere follower of Shri Ramanuja Sampradayam and hence I 
> don't even have to analyse on any other stories of other 
> sampradayams. When such a question arises to whether those stories 
> are right or not, the first thing that we need to ask ourselves is, 
> do we understand our sampradayam at the first place? Did we try to 
> learn it from an acharyan or at the least, read the books written by
> one of them? 

Some "non-genuine" gurus may not exhibit everything at the very first 
instance. I happened to meet one swamiji and he asked me if I were a 
devotee of Narayana and since I was ignorant about our sampradayam,I 
thought let me learn something. I attended couple of classes given by 
this swamiji but then he didn't like my questioning him and moreover 
I found out immediately(even though I didn't know much about the 
details of SriVisishtadvaitham)that he was teaching only advaitham. 
All I knew about BG was that the life line of BG lies in BG 18.66(my 
parents taught only this). The beauty is that swamiji didn't even say 
that he is talking about advaitham and he would quote a lot from 
skanda/linga purANAm(which are tamasic). If I give a talk/lecture, 
first I would tell the audience what the topic is and if it is not my 
own original idea I would mention the name of the proponent. When I 
didn't see this in that swamiji I was wondering what kind of 
knowledge is that. I found loopholes in the teachings and I bid 
goodbye. I was saved from the clutches of Advaitham because of 
EmperumAnAr's katAksham and PerumAL's anugraham. This incidence 
turned me to get into our sampradayam in full swing. You never 
know,GV may act as a catalyst for some(like Soundar) "already born 
into our sampradayam" to become a "true/genuine" follower of 
EmperumAnAr. 

> If not, dear devotees, let us start with that rather 
> than even trying to analyze other sampradayams. As Smt Nappinnai 
> rightly put it, we should start reading the articles posted by our 
> leaders like Shri Chinna Jeeyar swami, Velukkudi swami and so onand 
> stop listening to others until we complete our feat of learning our 
> own sampradayam to the best extent possible.
> For us who are born and brought up in Shri RAmanuja Sampradayamthis 
> is all we need to follow:
> "Puruvacharyargal podham anuttanangal
> Kooruvar vaartthaigalai kondu neer theri
> Irul tharuma nyalatthe imbamuttru vaazhum
> Therul tharuma desikanai therndu" - Upadesa Rattina Malai

Partly I agree and partly I disagree. If there are articles by our 
AcAryas on the web then we get benefitted. If not, sometimes this 
type of external philosophies help our own guys/gals(like me/soundar) 
to develop unfliching faith in our sampradayam. Just as you have 
accepted certain things(living abroad which is not mentioned in URM)
as part and parcel of your life,you have to accept certain other 
things(reading books or association with people belonging to other 
cults) as well in the same spirit. If that bhagavAn really wants 
someone to get into our sampradayam,He will direct that person in the 
right path that is,the right AcArya. Knowledge can not dawn without 
the grace of AcArya. The URM you quoted will be taken care of 
automatically:-)

> PS: BTW, I attended the Rama-Sita Thirukkalyana mahotsavam today
> (saturday) in the Lemont(Chicago) Shri Ramar Temple - that wasbased 
> on the Shri Rama Navami. Thanks to the lord, for making me go there 
> and giving me an oppurtunity to attend the entire function which 
> was,to say the least, a wonderful treat for the eyes. I just cannot 
> explain it in words, but for those who missed it, my regrets!!

You should have thought of Sri KUraththAzhvAn(prayed for nAlUrAn) and 
prayed to PerumAL that whatever feast you experienced that other saha 
bhAgavthAs(with j~nAnak kaN)also sould experience the same instead of 
expressing your regrets:-)

AzhvAr EmperumAnAr JIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam
NC Nappinnai





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