Dear Sri Mohan swamin, Sri Kidambi Soundararajan Swamin and others,
Please be assured that I am not interested in eliciting an
apology from anyone on behalf of ISKCON, Sri Sampradaayam or anyone
else. I am the least qualified person to speak for any of these
groups. All that I wrote was with a view to encouraging tolerance
between sampradaayams, and reiterating the need for us to be fully
informed about these differences, before we might pass judgement on
another group. Sri Kidambi Soundararajan swamin, I am equally
guilty of value judgements based on my own western upbringing and
ask you to forgive me for the same. In the words of Periyaazhvaar
(but literally applied), I am only a "siRiya NYaanaththan"!
Sri Mohan swamin, I think I may have had a case of crossed
wires when answering your point. I am grateful for your timely
reminder that it is more important to inculcate service of
God/others within oneself than emphasise the role of varna, when it
comes to Vaishnavam. And of course the misconception that Sri
Vaishnavism is the preserve of brahmins is a damaging one which, I
agree, no one should go away thinking. Since the initial question
was to do with the significance of gaayatri in Vaishnava thought,
with Sri Pritesh swamin also providing us with the Gaudiya view, I
thought I would relate what I had observed of the differences
between in approach between these two traditions in giving gaayatri
initiation (focussing therefore by implication on brahmins in both
sampradaayams, I am sorry if this came across as implying that they
are more important than anyone else, which of course is not true).
I completely agree that whether one has Vedic initiation or not,
from a Vaishnava point of view this is completely secondary to
inculcating dasatvam/sheshatvam within oneself.
As you yourself say, chanting of gaayatri or any other Vedic
practice then becomes yet another process by which we serve Him. In
both sampradaayams, those who consider themselves brahmin no doubt
do so with this in mind.
My only last point on this would only be that we also be
careful what we say is the Sri Vaishnava aachaaryas' position on
eligibility for Vedic initiation. We are all no doubt aware that
the *majority* view of acharyas is that this is birth-based; however
Sri Pritesh Swamin gave the important example of a non-Indian
gentlemen who has presumably been given upanayanam by a genuine Sri
Vaishnava acharya and now heads the Australian wing of a Sri
Vaishnava organisation. I believe there at least a couple more such
examples. So even on this issue I would suggest caution when we are
asked 'what is the Sri Vaishnava view on who should chant gaayatri' -
it would seem that, from the example set by some of our revered
acharyas, it is not quite as black and white as we may have
previously thought.
If members would like to move onto a different topic, I found
another question by Sri Pritesh very interesting, that of pre-
samaashrayanam devotees performing simple pooja/archana. Is there
any accepted view on this? My grandfather taught me a simple pooja
procedure based on some of the mantras and paasurams from the
Tiruvaaraadhanam which I use (I am also yet to undergo
samaashrayanam), but I would be very interested to hear any other
members' views or experiences.
sarvAparAdhAn kShamasva
with praNAmams
namO nArAyaNAya
Ranjan
--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, vimalkumar ranganathan
<panardasan@xxxx> wrote:
>
> SrI:
> SrimatE rAmAnujAya nama:
>
> Dear Sri Ranjan Swamin and others,
> I humbly and gladly stand
corrected. Again, I have the highest reverence for ISKCON for its
high standards and vigor, and even my family has thick connections
with the movement. I have always had been a bit uncomfortable with
what had been discussed - perhaps because of the value systems I
knew, and ofcourse, misunderstandings from my part. I am in total
agreement that in the bigger picture, we are all Vaishnavas who
relish in serving the Lord and his devotees. I also seek the pardon
of any devotees attached to ISKCON if they are offended with what I
wrote.
>
> adiyEN dAsan,
> Kidambi Soundararajan.
>
> AzhwAr emperumAnAr jeeyar thiruvadigaLE Saranam.
>
> Mohan Sagar <madhuriandmohan@xxxx> wrote:
> Sri Ranjan,
>
> My sincere apologies for conveying the wrong message. Please be
rest
> assured that I have utmost respect for ISKCON and have served as
an
> active member of our local temple's advisory board for several
years. I
> also consider several devotees as close, personal friends.
>
> I hope with this in mind, you can better understand the intent of
my
> concerns. What I have been observing in the subsequent postings
is the
> misrepresentation that Sri sampradayam is mainly comprised of
Brahmin
> (Iyengars) and that the Gayatri mantra somehow plays some
significant
> role in becoming a Sri Vaishnava. The varna system - whether we
> believe is birth-based or not - is a state of the body. One's
being a
> brahmana by birth or choice obligates that person to certain rules
and
> codes of conduct that exclude him from the society at large. The
> practice of Vaidika rituals and proper observation of sastra is
also
> important. Whether or not the Iyengars of today follow this is
another
> story, but we all must agree that this what Vedas say - at least
from
> our understanding of it.
>
> But, from the Sri Vaishnava perspective, which I would agree only
> accepts the birth-based varna concept, caste is really a condition
of
> the body. Being a Vaishnava, as our Acharyas say, is a condition
of the
> soul. It involves the realization of "dasatvam" in ISKCON or
> "seshatvam" in the Sri sampradayam, the feeling that one lives to
serve
> the Lord for His Pleasure. Such a psychological/spiritual
position is
> expressed quite differently, through chanting the Holy Name,
serving
> fellow devotees, and so on. Such activities have nothing to do
with
> varna or gender. Even the role of Vaidika rituals change for
those who
> regard themselves to be Brahmin because they are done in His
Service
> without expectation of personal reward. . Therefore, I am of the
> opinion that if one follows a Vaishnava school, the role of this
> dastavam/seshatvam should be emphasized, keeping the Vaidika
rituals in
> proper context as being the svadharma of those who wish to engage
in
> rituals for the Lord's Service. It is in keeping this mood of
servitude
> that I see ISKCON serving as a model to other Vaishnava schools of
thought.
>
> I hope this helps to clarify my position.
>
> adiyen
> Mohan
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > Sriman Mohan, as to why ISKCON has adopted use of the
gaayatri
> >mantra, I am sure anyone who asks them will know that they see
> >themselves as a fully Vaidika sampradaayam. Anyone who has
closely
> >observed an ISKCON worship service will notice that their
poojaris
> >(often non-Indians, who have been given yagnyopaveetam) do recite
> >vedic mantras during worship including Purusha suukta, Vishnu
suukta
> >and others, and if you ask them about their practice you will
find
> >that they do in fact perform trikaala sandhyaavandanam. This
isn't
> >just my guess, I happen to have discussed these issues in detail
a
> >couple of times with a prominent Gaudiya Vaishnava academic in
the
> >UK who also performs priestly duties for many Indian Hindu
> >families.
> >
> > Any student of Gaudiya sampradaayam will also know that they
> >don't subscribe to the 'birth' based view of varna prevalent in
Sri
> >sampradaayam - hence their giving of yagnyopaveetam to non-birth
> >brahmins. Your observation that the chanting of Vedas is
restricted
> >by birth may be the understanding of most Sri Vaishnava acharyas,
> >but I think we should respect the strongly held conviction of the
> >Gaudiyas on this. They too will be able to quote vedic pramaaNam
> >stating that 'individuals displaying the required characterists
are
> >eligible for gaayatri'. Any further discussion of this would
> >probably spiral into the caste-by-birth-or-qualities debate which
> >has happened too many times on other lists. My point is that
> >recitation of Gaayatri and Vedas has a very secure, and
sampradaayic
> >position in ISCKON which we should respect.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam
> http://www.vedics.net
>
>
>
>
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