sri: Srimathe Ramanujaya Nama: You raise valid questions, but these type of emotional quesions are better answered over the phone or better yet in person. [30 minutes and a open mind will anyone to see the beauty of Sri Ramanuja Sampradayam] However, adiyen will try to answer your questions: [Read with open mind and genuine interest in learning the truth] --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Sadagopan Vasudevan <satakopanv@xxxx> wrote: > > Dear Friends: > I am seeing many versions of this story. POINT 1 ========= Any thing we say should be based on purvacharyas works and purvacharyas works only, when we do that we have only one version, one voice and one message. Anytime people start writing anything on their own, without repeating purvacharyas words, it causes what you see today multiple versions. Some of the newer stories floated and their modifications every decade are not based on Purvacharyas. Now am i saying this on my own or using purvacharyas words? ========================================================= munnOr mozhintha * muRai thappAmal kEttu * pinnOrnthu thAm athanaip pEsAthE ** - tham nenjchil thORRinathE solli * ithu suththa upathEsavara vARRathenbar * mUrkkarAvAr [Pasuram 71: Upadesa Rattina malai] Those who do not learn the message through the acharya from the authentic lineage (OranVazhi Sampradaya), and pass the message as exactly taught to them, But instead pass meanings that come to their mind (i.e they do not repeat Purvacharyas) Yet they justify that this is what purvacharyas have said - Such people are foolish themselves. (Bigger damage is done to community as others may think they are genuine as they look and talk like authentic followers of OranVazhi.) So how do you know the differrence, if the words of purvacharyas is repeated, then they are genuine, if not they are foolish and they are making others who read/ follow them also foolish. Look at some of the recent books released, and the one that is being debated here. If you find exacle purvacharys words repeted (with ref. to pasuram vyakhyanam etc..) then you know you got a genuine one, else they are self made material (these self made books and material, may have 80 to 90% good and +ve material but the other small percentage of incorrect material would do more harm than) > If indeed the stories by Anbil at the link is wrong, and if indeed many > others have used the same (fromk 3000 padi and not 6000 padi) > then why have the other scholars from Thenkalai side not > protested this at all. (That tell me this may be true) See POINT 1 above, if its true then it will be repeating Purvacharyas (not self interpretations) > q1: Even today why do the leaders of Thenkalai not protest this? Many Acharyas have protested and written but after a while they give us on such people (since they realize these individuals are not sleeping but just acting like they are asleep: Meaning they know what they are doing is wrong and still continue it ) Great Acharyas like HH Sriman Narayana Jeeyar swami have written asking the mis-inoformers to stop, HH even posted on on srirangasri lists, (the message was NOT approved) If a person is not willing to listen to HH Ramanuja Jeeyar Swami, do you think they are willing to listen to others. Here is an excerpt from the mail of HH Ramanuja Jeeyar Swami This message was not approved on srirangasri list. But it was approved on HH's list: jetusa: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jetusa/message/989 =====Jetusa message# 989 ===== Better to understand the right things and inform. If it is only for your own enjoyment, you do whatever you wish. But when we inform to others, we should be very correct for ourselves. Otherwise, that becomes irrepairable damage and thus an inexcusable sin to pu:rva:charyas. We hope you try to understand. =chinnajeeyar= =================================================== > q2: Others from this group have written to me saying that > Desikan is thenkalai only, but got "hijkacked" by brahminical > Vaishanvas to be their sole leader about 200 years ago, > and then started all the conversions. Today: Thenkalai - More emphasis on Sri Vaishnavam Vadakalai - More emphasis on Brahminism Purvahcaryas NEVER used the word Thenkalai/ Vadakalai in their works or even referred to it. Swamin Desikan never referred to any kalais in any of his works Neither did all the Purvacharyas in OranVazhi. There was only Ramanuja Sampradayam till 1750 for sure. (You may want to refer to Koil Olugus of Thiurmalai and Srirangam for reference.) Some brahminical oriented devotees, did not like the direction set by Sri Pillai Lokachar and Mamunikal. (More emphasis on Sri Vaishnavathvam thus allowing samashreyanam to all people regardless of caste.). These few brahminical devotees drifted apart, this differrence became bigger and bigger to the point that a seperate sampradayam got formed. Until 1750 CE, you cannot see any documented Bharanyasam as is being followed today in the Vadakalai Sampradayam. If Vadakalai Sampradayam says they follow Swami Desikan, then please follow him fully. He did not undergo a seperate ritual (After samashreyaanm) called bharanyasam, neither the his famous Son, or PB Anna his famous disciple. Also until a few generations ago Vadakalai acharyas did not perform intitiation (samashreyanam) for Non-Brahmins. Hence, Swami Desikan also lived and practiced Ramanuja Sampradayam only, and did not intend to create a new one called Desika Sampradayam, > If you Think logically, Swami Desikan is in almost all the > temples including srirangam. Everywhere he is Vadakalai only, > so you have to accept what you see. If you read the history of Desikan Sannidhi in Srirangam, any Devotee of Desikan would cry. The original Vigraham was mutilated to change the thiruman to suit the whim of one group of people, this left marks on the forehead of the great Desika, hence that desika was removed and new one installed with the Thiruman of their choice. (Which shows clearly the ones who did this do not love Desikan, but are fanatic about the Thiruman on the Forehead.) The truth is known to many, but mis-information will only make the matters worse. ================================================= ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! 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