Dear Sriman, Indeed it is very interesting. Just out of curiosity.... Can you also tell what is the reply of Sankara and Madhwa to the Sunyavada of Buddhists. Thanks & Regards Mohan Ramanujadasan. On Tue, 31 Aug 2004 Arvind Rajagopalan wrote : > >Dear Bhagavatas, > >An interesting email from my father i wanted to share >with all. > >Adiyen Ramanuja dasan > >Aravindan >****************************************** >In the latest issues of Kumudam Bhakti, we are >translating Brahma sutras which deal with Buddhism. As >you may know the second chapter of BS is called >Avirodha Adhyaya and the sutras therein argue how >other philosophies like Lokayata, Jaina, Sankya, Yoga >Nyaya,,Vaishshika, Pasupatha are not supported by the >Vedas .I thought you will like the arguments of BS >against Buddhism as I found them a delight to my >rational mind and hence this letter. > >First I will give the English translation of what we >have written as introduction to the Adhikaranam >dealing with Buddhism and then I will try to give you >a translation of Sri Bhashya to give you a sample of >the great intellect of Sri Ramanuja. > > > >Let us understand the essentials of Buddhism as an >introduction to the Sutras that follow. > >Buddhism is divided into two main branches, >Mahayana(great Path) and Hinayana(lower path) Hinayana >has again two branches called Vaibhashika and >Southrandhika. Mahayana is divided into Yogachara or >Vignanavada and Madhyamika. > > > >Two thousand five hundred years ago(circa BC >563-483)lived Gautama Buddha one of the outstanding >thinkers of mankind. His life history is fairly known >to all of us. > > > >What he realised as the fundamental truth is this. In >the universe every thing is changing every moment. >Even the rocks and mountains change, slowly but >surely. There in nothing that does not change. > >So, anything that changes cannot be true, meaning >permanent What is true is change and not objects of >change. So nothing exists.(if you slice every moment >into infinite parts and say that in every one of those >parts things change, you will realise this) > > > >This Sunya philosophy (nihilism) based on Khana >Bhanga Nyayam, can be translated in English as under. > > > >Everything is changing and nothing is constantly >existing. Since nothing has constant existence, it >follows that nothing is real, or, only Nothing is >real. Thus, nothing in fact exists. > > > >On the basis of the above principle of transience, >Buddhists are called Sunyavadhis or Kshanikas. > >Let us now see the differences among the four >branches. > > > >The external world of objects, thro our senses, >becomes our internal world How can we say that our >internal world is the exact replica of the external >world?. > >Our senses may alter the external world and present to >us an internal world, which may be totally different > from the external world. Also we have said that every >thing changes every moment . So both the external and >internal worlds are changing, moment to moment. > > > >The Vaibhashikas say that though the external and >internal worlds are changing every moment, for the >duration of that one moment they are real, and they >exist. > >The Southrandhikas say that the external world can >only be guessed by us, since we only perceive the >internal world and we can only deduct that the >external world is a replica of the internal world. > >Since both say that the world is real, even though for >a moment only, the Hinayanis are called Realists. > >Yogacharas say that by the logic of transience >external world does not exist. Only the internal world >or our thoughts are real. > >Madhyamikas go one step further and say by the same >logic of transience, the internal world or our >thoughts are also unreal ,since thoughts are also >changing every moment.. Theirs is the ultimate >nihilism. > > > > > >Now I will give a sample of Sri Bhashya. > > > >BS 2-2-30 Sarvada Anupapades cha. > >Sarvada- In every way. > >Anupapades cha-(Sunyavada) Is not tenable or >appropriate.. > > > >The Buddhists say thus. > > > >Gnana, or thought and external world does not exist >This non-existence is the? ?reality? > >If an object exists, there must be a cause. For the >pot to exist clay is the cause. > >The problem is, we cannot deduct the cause for >anything. Because we are not able to see anything >created from another thing. Even clay has to be >kneaded etc for becoming the pot and hence how can we >say for sure, that the pot is created by clay. So we >say that if there is an object we cannot say for sure >that it has been created from another existing object > > > > From non existence no existing thing can be created. >Out of nothing can anything come?( like in a Sai baba >trick!) Clay gets completely destroyed when pot is >made. When clay gets destroyed there is nothing left . >or only nothing is left. So pot cannot be created out >of nothing. So we say the pot does not exist. > > > >There is a third possibility. From pot itself pot can >come. But this is no creation. > > > > We have proved that an existing thing cannot be >created from another existing thing or a non existing >thing In other words nothing can exist!( Do you >follow this logic? Buddha must have had a very sharp >mind indeed) > > > >Ramanuja says in reply thus > > > >What do you say? Do you say things exist? Or Doyou say >things don?t exist ? or do you say they exist and >don?t exist ? None of the three assumptions will lead >to Sunyavada. > > > >If you say things exist.. We have already proved that >existence and non existence is the knowledge or >gnanam of status change. We see a pot and after >someone removes the pot or it gets destroyed to become >pieces, we don?t see the pot - this is a mere status >change. So how can you say that nothing exists? >Sunyavada fails. > > > >If by means of some logic or Pramana, you want to >prove that everything is Sunyam, then since that logic >or Pramana is also included in the statement that >every thing is Sunya, you can never prove your theory >of Sunyavada. > > > >Are you confused to such a degree that you wish I >stop? I stop here. > >Affly, > >Appa. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >From: arvind <rwind_raj@xxxxxxxxx> > >Reply-To: rwind_raj@xxxxxxxxx > >To: "rajagop_s@xxxxxxxxxxx" <rajagop_s@xxxxxxxxxxx> > >Subject: punyajanam pics > >Date: 14 Aug 2004 22:21:09 -0700 > > > >punyajanam pics > >If you did not see the full album please click here > >http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/rwind_raj/album?.tok=phrmZlBB46hp4Qsm&.dir=/4899&.src=ph > > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! >http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail > > > > >azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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