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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00052 Sep 2004

 
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DEar Ms. nappinnai, 
The discussion started with sAthvika ahankAram and has veered around to  
question of' destroyal of shEshathvam'

I have been observing the discussion with keen interest.  I submit my humble 
understanding hereunder.

No, shEshathvam is not destroyed. If shEshathvam is destroyed subservience is 
destroyed. Then what is destroyed as mentioned by one and all - azhikum pOdhu  
mumUkshuppadi?

I am forced to take refuge again in AchArya Hrdhayam 21.

"shEshathva ,bhOgrthvam pOle anREA pArathanthriya bhOgyadhaigaL" 21 and

Nature of the souls:
shEshathvam:  Three features i. Subservience to the Lord - shEshathvam.
gnAthruthvam: knowledge;

What is the result of this knowledge on the nature of soul?
a. The soul is capable of performing certain things independently - applying 
own mind and thought.
b. performing things;
c. experiencing -anubavikkum thanmai- bhokthruthvam.

Defects in the nature of the souls: It is not enough for the soul to just 
realise the nature mentioned hereinabove. The soul should also realise the 
defects in the aforementioned nature.
What are these defects?
1.The fact that soul can do and is capable of applying mind and thought is a 
defect. Even this independence is derived from the Lord. Therefore, such a 
shEshathvam mixed with such independence is not pure. The shEshathvam bereft or 
removed of such indpeendent nature is only pure. 

2. The soul is capable of experiencing-anubavikkum thanmai (bhOghthruthvam). 
However, these may result in experiencing certain acts which may not 
necessarily be for the happiness of the Lord. This realisation will make the 
soul as the one "experienced by the Lord" -anubavikkap paduginRa vasthu- 
bhOgyathai. 

These defects persist in the  state of shEshathvam.

Thus, pArathanthriyam is a state where shEshathvam's independence and 
experiencing for own sake is destroyed or say removed.

Conclusion: In the state of pArathanthrium, thus, the defects of shEshathvam or 
in the nature of the souls is destroyed. these are independence and 
experiencing for one sake. 

I hope my understanding is correct.

rAmAnuja dAsan
vAnamamalai padmanabhan
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: vaidhehi_nc 
  To: ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
  Sent: Friday, September 10, 2004 9:12 PM
  Subject: [ramanuja] Re: Digest Number 856


  Sri:
  Srimathe Ramanujaya nama:
  Srimad Vara Vara Munaye nama:

  Dear Vishnu & other devotees,
            
             Humble praNAms to all. I have forgotten the question 
  itself with which this thread started! BTW, are there rAjasic and 
  tAmasic ahankAram(like sAthvik)??? Just curious to know:-) That's 
  all.

             I thought(!!! I could be wrong but refer to SVB:160-168) 
  sEShatva(ananyArha) and pAratantrya go hand in hand. Just 
  as "sEShatva" has to be kept suppressed if it hampers the Lord's 
  pleasure, the other attribute "pAratantrya" should not also be 
  allowed to damp/lower the Lord's spirits. If the jIvAthma/subject is 
  unresponsive and behaves like a wood(in the name of dependence), it 
  will certainly divert/detract from the Lord's pleasure and thus 
  becomes an evil although "pAratantrya"(in the usual context) is the 
  anti-thesis of conceit and arrogance. When Srirama,after Ravana was 
  overthrown,wanted to see Sita, straight from her captivity(as she 
  was in her internment),Sita appeared before the Lord after a 
  refreshing bath! This literally made Srirama frown on her "snAnam 
  roSha janakam". 

             Again refer to SVB:71-72. pAratantrya will eliminate self-
  effort, while sEShatva self-delight and self-enjoyment, provided 
  these two fundamental characteristics,which mark the essential 
  nature of the individual soul, are fully grasped and lived upto. 
  Then these two can be turned towards selfless service, rendered unto 
  the Lord, solely for His pleasure, with no tinge of personal egoism.

             All errors in understanding SVB are mine. If a number 
  greater than Infinity exists, then "that many" obeisances(of mine) 
  to srI piLLai lOkAcArya. He blows my mind. I feel every aphorism
  (sUtra) of SVB is a PhD topic. Such is the greatness of srI piLLai 
  lOkAcArya. Credit also goes to the devotees Sri Parthasarathy and 
  Sri vanamamali Padmanabhan. Plus, Sri Sridhar Srinivasan has already 
  nicely explained the position of sEShatva-pAratantrya.

  AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE sharaNam
  dAsAnu dAsI
  NC Nappinnai


  > Respected Swami,
  > 
  > How will we discuss, if we keep apologizing, saying our posts 
  > are "blabberings" and frequently writing "forgive"? May be 
  > some "sAttvika ahankAram" is needed:)
  > 
  > All of us, including self, use words like SEshatvam, kainkaryam 
  etc. 
  > interchangeably. However, when it comes to SEshatvam vs 
  pAratantryam, 
  > we need to go into what the terms originally mean.
  > 
  > I referred to Manavala MamunigaL's commentary for mumukshuppadi 
  and 
  > explanation of Sriman T.K.Gopaplacharya Swami. In that, Sriman 
  T.K. 
  > swami defines what is SEshatvam. He says it is remaining as 
  bhOgyam 
  > for PerumAL, like pushpam, chandanam etc. 
  > 
  > PirAtti's and other dEvIs' SEshatvam to PerumAL is explained in 
  SrI 
  > guNa ratna kOSam of Bhattar in similar terms (bhOgyA vAmapi 
  > nAntarIyakatayA pushpAngarAgai: samam...)
  > 
  > Dasanudasan
  > Vishnu




  azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam



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