I notice the pains which all of us going thru these mails/ exchanges--of course it is great that atleast we have started sharing such feelings--which by itself is an achievement.The fear of Apacharam seems to have taken over the questionning process--once again questionning can take place only after one has spent time with some Kalakshepam etc etc. While the arguement that-at some stage -it is the Faith which takes over the "reason" is unquestionnable --and it is sort of "realised" over a period of time by people as they go thru the life's journey.I myslef being a Physicist breaking my head on the Heisenbergs and the Quantum Thoeries--to some extent the book by Swami Neduntheru Kannan on Divine Soverignty and Our Freedom should bring about some links to the scientific temper we all trying to talk about in these columns. But what I want to say ----over these 200 plus years Srivaishnavism has undergone changes into some sort of hypocricy--mostly dominated by ritualistic --Acharam related ---percolating a sense of loss of faith as a whole--materilism has taken over even to many people who put on Dwadasa Pundrams everyday.The Great Philosophy of Vishitadvaitam by itself is increasingly being understood today with the increased number of people in their 40s (VRS cases )and many in their 20s just by virtue of revival into the essense of Ramanuja 's uinified approach .More exposure today into the concepts is helping a lot to address such questions and somewhat practice without the fear of being hypoctitic. While our philosophy as a whole is so nicely integrated --it needs enormous effort to assimilate and one's life time is not adequate---I am wondering whether at all we can ---I mean some one who could package the essense of our Siddhantaham in such a way that one could practice it on a day today basis--( for example in Budhism they have brought about the Vipassana meditation which by itslef is relatively easy to practice---today millions of people all over the world practice it and do see benefit ----though Bhudism goes against the Vedas , concept of Karma theory stands good )--so there is clear sense of direction which brings about both short term benefits while the very purpose of this meditation is the long benefit of Moksha--though the interpretation of Moksha by Budhists are different from ours.What I mean is not meditation as a solution but some such thing which can attract all scattered Sri Vaishnavaites who have or slowly melting away from the main stream siddhatam just for wnat of such simplistic approach- atleast to make a beginning. I am aware of the fact that our Siddhantam is such that it has to be practiced minute by minute--as true Sri Vaishnavaites-- as our Azhwars have done---and this is where the present day life does not lend itself to practice.====and the lack of Faith takes roots and people switch over to quick fix Gods---I am also referrring to the ParaDevata Aradhanam issue which is also taking its rounds amongst the Sri Ranga Sri memebers. Dasan, Ranagarajan. PS: Once again I attempted to understand myself the concepts rather than finding even remotely any answer to the questions that are raised and debated. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sadagopan" <sgopan@xxxxxxxxxxxx> To: "Maya Iyengar" <maya_s1717@xxxxxxxxx>; <sarathys@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "jasn sn" <jayasartn@xxxxxxxxx>; <kdevanathan@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "sudarshan madabushi" <mksudarshan2002@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "Vijaya Raghavan" <svrvan@xxxxxxxxx>; <s.ramachandran@xxxxxxxxxxxx>; "ramachandran soundararajan" <maheesaran@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "SRS" <Srirangasri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Cc: "Ponnappan" <Oppiliappan@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: 24 July, 2004 1:11 AM Subject: [SriRangaSri] Re: Moolavar > Dear SrImathi Maya Iyengar: > > Please do not be hurt over the exchanges relating to > your mail on your impassioned plea for using the tools > of science in an effort to comprehend the intricacies of > ArchA Moorthy ( Consecrated Forms , where the Lord > resides for accepting our AarAdhanam). > > I am a scientist by training and have a Doctor's degree > from the top most Scientific& Engineering University , > Massachusetts Institue Of Technology (MIT) . Many > Members of the list are Medical Doctors and Technical > Professionals . All of us have high regard to Science > and its tools to open up new frontiers for saving lives > and reduce suffering and to travel to far off planets and > their Moons . > > Many of us , call ourselves rationalists or traditonalists do > not believe Science as a tool can be of much help > in spiritual matters. Faith takes over , where Science > is unable to help . There is no irreconceilable conflict > between science and Religion (Knowledge and belief ). > They are not irreconceilable antagonists as stated by > Einstein . He says further: " A religious person is devout in > the sense that he or she has no doubt about the significance > and loftiness of specific super-personal objects and goals , > which neither require nor are capable of rational foundation " > ( in a scientific sense) . > > The devout are steeped in Mahaa Viswasam about the Lord's > rakshakathvam and are like children crossing a road holding > firmly the hands of its Father . They have implicit and total faith > in the protective capability of the Lord(Father) and are not looking for > a rational explanation to convince themselves as to why and how > the Lord is their protector (Rakshakan ). After many births , > they hold on to the Lord's sacred feet and recognize that > they have no recourse except the Lord and the Lord does > not dare to shake the firm grip of the devout . These feeling > states are beyond analysis by scientific methods or tools. > That is the way it is ! > > This is not to say that the role of Science in Vedic way of > life is minimal or nonexistent . The VedAs and Upanishads > accept and celebrate the Lord as the source of all knowledge. > Inspired by the Vedic Texts , the Rishis of Vedic age " developed > their positive sciences and made the world worth while to live in > with comforts and purposefulness". The rotations and revolutions > of earth , planets and Sun (astronomy ) were developed > by the likes of Aryabhatta et al. The concept of Zero( Kham), > the reciprocal of Infinity and Mathematical Infinity were developed > form here ." Besides Mathematical infinity , God Himself was > recognized as the Infinite Unity ". > > The Science of Vedic geometry arose from Vedic Rishis . There are > references to all kinds of mechanical systems in VedAs (Mechanical > Engineering) . The healing powers of herbs against specific > diseases ( the science of Pharmacology ) has been recorded > in Atharva Vedam in great detail. The dangers of Tuberclosis > and its cure has been covered in several hymns of Atarva Vedam . > The world of herbs (Botany ) and animals ( Zoology) are covered > again in VedAs . One can go on and on about physical sciences . > But the Vedic rishis had some thing beyond the physical sciences > and developed AdhyAthmika Saasthrams dealing with the metaphysical > tatthvams of the indissoluble kinship between the Lord of the Universe > and the Jeevans , which are both co-eternal. > > Science ravels along and soon is confounded by its own > limits . We travel with science and come to the stage , where > we seek more answers and insights that Science can not give. > Our sights are lifted , our hearts are thrilled and we bask under > the warmth of the wisdom of the Rg Vedic manthram ( X. 121.5): > > " By Him , the heavens are strong and the earth is steadfast ; > by HIm light's realm and sky-vault are supported ; By Him the regions > in the mid-air are measured . To that Lord alone , May we offer > our adoration " . The concept of ananya gathithvam , Aakinchnyam , > SaraNAgathy arose from such insights . > > If the physical Scientists are blessed to have the initiation into the AdhyAthmic > Science under the tutelage of a SadAchAryan , they are doubly gifted indeed . > One does not need however to be trained in Scientific disciplines > to derive the full benefit of AdhyAthmic Science . > > Just Some Thoughts in passing ! > > NamO NaarAyaNAya , > V.Sadagopan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Maya Iyengar > To: sarathys@xxxxxxxxxxx ; jayasartn@xxxxxxxxx ; kdevanathan@xxxxxxxxxxx ; mksudarshan2002@xxxxxxxxxxx ; Vijaya Raghavan ; s.ramachandran@xxxxxxxxxxxx ; Sadagopan ; ramachandran soundararajan ; srirangasri@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Sent: Friday, July 23, 2004 5:17 AM > Subject: Fwd: Moolavar > > > Dear devotees, > > I was shocked beyond belief to see the responses to the report quoted from Indian express on moolavar and the complete black-out of the mail I sent as a sequel to SriRangaSri. When I came to know that relevance has been attached to the shila roopam, the materials used for abhishekam etc, I was over-awed how every aspect in our tradition has evolved with such rich meaning. With this thought when I look around it is that "Kaangindra porulellam yaane ennum..". As I look into my Human physiology book, every aspect tallies with the upanishad statement that this body of ours is the shareeram for brahman and it is he who controls it as the sarathy. The descent of 11 out of 12 cranial nerves upto heart (only) and the remaining one coming to the stomach looks like Vishnu as Vaiswanara pervading the body through the food he cooks in the stomach. Every system inside the body as a part and the control by brain as a whole (I am leaving out details of connectivity here because I am yet to come to grips with the fact that people here do not want one to think) is an amazing aspect of Brahman 'happening' from macro to micro level. There is wonderful symmetry at all levels of creation, only that the human brain limited by hypocrisy and dogmas refuse to fall in line. It seems God has tough time dealing with us only - to goad to make us see reason and realise him. When a writer (writing on the moolavar) tells his little son that Thiruvaadi pporam was the birth day of 'Goddess' and that her age is as old as that of earth, no one would correct it. Because that would be apacharam (according to the members of the group).. But that he lost a wonderful chance to tell his son the story of Andal (who would have denounced any reference to herself as goddess) and the easy way to explain the road to spirituality by means of her story is not at all realised. Going by this kind of attitude, I very well understand how and why our sacred knowledge of the past had undergone so much mutilation over generations. For the bhktas of today, bhakti is a means to get this or that result including moksham. But I don't think our texts ascribed to this view. They said if you expect some return for bhakti from Perumal then it is tantamount to a wife expecting 'kooli' from her husband for the happiness he had given her. On the other hand we find texts telling us to meditate upon him through knowledge (which I find through science and logic too) which in essence is bhakti which is para bhakti leading to him. When you do upasana on him through vigyana, you see him as vigyana mayan. Can any one challenge this? Then why this fear about science? > > I told my parents my fear and doubt whether it is impossible to find one belonging to our fold who understands or is desirous of understanding god through bhakti as well as knowledge from science. At least are there people who realise that knowledge that leads to bhakti has been regarded by seers like Ramanujacharya as a way of Brahmo-upasana, which Ramanujachrya himeself followed? They said they too had not seen (so far) both to co-exist. Perhaps it is Narayana alone who can understand me. So keep chanting " Sriranganatha, mamanatha, namosthuthe", they said. > > It is with much pain that I decide to come out of the group which in my opinion has touched only the tip of the burg as far as promoting and sustaining the essence of Vedic knowledge is concerned but can not help the devotee to keep an open and fresh mind as to allow "all noble thoughts come to them from all sides". > > Regards, > > Maya. > > > > Note: forwarded message attached. > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. 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