[B-Greek] Re: Natural Language Acquisition and learning Greek

R Yochanan Bitan Buth ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il
Wed Jun 2 12:53:12 EDT 2004


Creider EGRAPSEN
>I did this by intensive study of textbooks and
>grammars at the same time as being immersed in the languages to the
>extent that this was possible (avoiding the use of English, etc.).  In
>each case, I found that an extensive period (several years) of active
>reading (active in the sense of looking up unfamiliar words in a
>dictionary, writing them down and studying them) was necessary before I
>could read anything rapidly and comfortably in these languages.  I'm
>not entirely sure that my knowledge of the spoken language was a
>particularly big help here.  As partial evidence I may cite French, a
>language that I read with more or less complete comfort but speak and
>understand only haltingly.
> 
>Greek is a far more difficult language than any of the above, and I
>confess that it bothers me that I don't think much in it or use it
>actively the way I would like to.  And I do wonder if the fact that I
>haven't, to use Krashen's term, "acquired" it, is a factor in the
>relative slowness with which I read it.  (As you know, I'm using your
>language lessons in an attempt to get a more multi-modal experience of
>the language.)
> 
>Can you tell us something of your experience learning Semitic languages?
>I imagine you knew Hebrew long before you spoke it, but what about Arabic?
>Did you learn to speak it (i.e. acquire it) before learning to read it?  
>Was speaking it a big help?
> 
>Chet Creider
 
Shalom Chet,
 
Thank you for the reply and questions whose answers churn up more issues.
 
Much of what is called 'hard' or 'easy' is a relationship of closeness to 
languages one already speaks. With Arabic I was already a speaker of Hebrew 
and found myself functioning in the language faster than friends without 
that background. I had read a year of 'classical Arabic' but found that 
almost irrelevant for using the language rapidly in speech.
(Fluency with Hebrew was probably more important than reading either
Arabic or Hebrew, but ultimately simply using Arabic, listening and speaking
was the main point.) For one thing, the classical Arabic langauge puts an 
extra syllable on most every word (case and mood endings) that are dropped 
off in the colloquial langauge. One of the ways I learned both written and 
colloquial Arabic was to spend afternoons with a kind retired man who would 
read the newspaper with me and discuss it colloquially. I had first brought
him my 'advanced grammar texts' and he asked if I was interested in what I
was reading? My response was that I was interested in learning Arabic, and 
he wisely picked up current, engaging, news material for DISCUSSION in 
Arabic. It probably took a year of doing that before the colloquial langauge
and the written language started to merge for me into one language. The 
diglossia seems wide at first but at the end of the day it is one language 
and I would recommend any who want the written language to include a spoken 
base. [Please note-that comment refers to Arabic. Arabic is 'more 
difficult' for English speakers, but Greek diglossia is even wider than 
Arabic. I find my self consciously converting modern to ancient and vice 
versa when trying to use Greek. I suspect that that situation remains at 
most levels unless, TAXA, an extreme kathereuvusa-user is able to bridge the

gap.]
 
French was the opposite. I had passed a "French reading exam" with high
marks,
but had never ordered a cup of coffee. Even after listening to lots of tapes

it wasn't until finally immersing in a West African situation for three 
weeks with breakfast to midnight French that things 'gelled'. After that
an occasional 'policier' (not high lit) became rapid and fun and especially 
working and doing consultation in French went a long way.
 
In any case, when I compare Hebrew or Arabic with my Greek I am conscious 
of a large disparity. What I have noticed about all language learning/
acuisition is that an amusing irony seems to rule. 
If you want to learn a language you must use a language. 
It is woven through both of our stories. Krashen would approve.
But students always ask, "How can you use a language before you've learned 
it? That is the question that a 2-5 year old, or any child second language 
learner never asks or answers. They are "nike kids", they just do it.
 
In terms of theory, Krashen does not distinguish comprehensible imput from 
when it is audio or written. But psychologically, I can feel a 
difference between the two, and more importantly, at most stages
of language use/acquisition I feel that production is important, the so-
called 'active' versus 'passive' dichotomy. I think that 'passive' knowledge

is restricted, held back, without some 'active' development. There also
seems to be something fundamental about 'hearing' a language. I meet people 
who have PhDs in ancient Hebrew but can't follow easy, slow, 
sentences spoken in Biblical Hebrew. Hebrew may be an extreme case because 
of common teaching being almost 100% visual-only from the beginning. 
Listening makes biological sense. E.g., dyslexia is real but who ever heard 
of "dysaudia" (learning blockage because of mis-ordered input, visual and 
audio respectively)?
 
With Hebrew, active use (thirty years ago now) did more than deepen vocab 
or add speed. It was closer to reformatting, rewiring, the whole language.
That 
may be an extreme case because of the counter-intuitive ways that BHebrew is

taught in schools. In other words, the disparity and sense of 'rewiring' may

not just be a factor of positively learning to speak, but negatively, of 
having to undo 'brittle'/mistaken conceptions of how the language worked, or
"might have" worked. I've seen some of that in Greek pedagogy, though not to

the same extent of Hebrew. For example, the MI verbs are the bread and
butter 
of Greek communication, yet often reserved toward the end of a beginning 
course. And aorist infinitives, imperatives and subjunctives are (usually)
the center or anchor point of THS LEKSEWS (LEKSIS=GLOSSA [as in
'glossary']).
Yet students usually 'generate' aorists out of the present tense verb/stem.
 
Well, I'm off to KRHTHN for a week so I won't be able to follow the thread 
until some lamb ARNIA fulfil their calling, soothingly over charcoal EPI 
ANQRAKSI, and some restina watches over some skordalia and tsatsiki.
 
ERRWSO. XARIS KAI EIRHNH PLHQUNQEIH. 
 
Randall Buth
 

Randall Buth, PhD

Director, Biblical Language Center

www.biblicalulpan.org

and Director, Biblical Studies in Israel

Hebrew University, Rothberg International School

ybitan at mscc.huji.ac.il

 




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