[B-Greek] More Basil questions
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Mon Jun 7 14:06:37 EDT 2004
At 12:23 AM +1000 6/8/04, <newsgroupstuff at swiftdsl.com.au> wrote:
>> >MH QAUMAZETE DE EI KAQ hEKASTHN hHMERAN EIS DIDASKALOU FOITWSI, KAI
>> >TOIS ELLOGIMOIS TWN PALAIWN ANDRWN DI hWN KATALELOIPASI LOGWN
>> >SUGGINOMENOIS hUMIN, AUTOS TI PAR EMAUTOU LUSITELESTERON EXEURHKENAI
>> >FHMI. TOUTO MEN OUN AUTO KAI XUMBOULEUSWN hHKW, TO MH DEIN EIS hAPAX
>> >TOIS ANDRASI TOUTOIS, hWSPER PLOIOU TA PHDALIA THS DIANOIAS hUMWN
>> >PARADONTAS, hHiPER AN AGWSI, TAUTH XUNEPESQAI, ALL hOSON
>> ESTI CRHSIMON
>> >AUTWN DECOMENOUS, EIDENAI TI CRH KAI PARIDEIN.
>> >
>> >Maybe I've been staring at it too long, but I can't figure these out:
>> >
>> >1. EIS in both sentences does not seem to have an accusative, being
>> >with genitive or dative. Is this not the preposition EIS?
>> (Maybe some
>> >form of
>> >EIMI?)
>>
>> No, you recognized the genitive DIDASKALOU with EIS; here
>> there's an implicit or elliptical OIKIAN, as we would
>> say,"Let's go over to John's"--meaning "to John's house" or
>> "to John's tavern," or whatever. In the other instance the
>> EIS is not going with TOIS ANDRASI TOUTOIS but simply is
>> understood with hAPAX--sometimes it's even written as one
>> word EISAPAX with the sense "for one time only."
>
>Okay, I think I can understand that. It explains why one translation had 'go
>to school', since I guess a school is like the 'house of the teacher'.
>
>I'll check out the EIS hAPAX some more!
>
>
>> >2. In the second sentence, how should I translate hHiPER AN
>> AGWSI? Is
>> >hHiPER dative feminine form of hOSPER? Also, how to parse
>> AGWSI (is it
>> >from AGAW)?
>>
>> Yes it is a dative feminine form of hOSPER, but inthis
>> instance there is (or once was) an implicit hODWi so that
>> hHiPER AN AGWSI means something like "whichever way in fact
>> they lead (you/us) ..." This usage of the feminine dative sg.
>> of a demonstrative TAUTHi or of a relative pronoun hHi or
>> sometimes even the weak demonstrative THiDE or the weaker
>> demonstrative that is identical with the article (which was
>> originally a very weak
>> demonstrative) THi is old and persistent in Greek.
>
>Thanks for the explanation! So AGWSI is pres act subj 3rd pl of AGW?
In a word: YES. I should add regarding the dative form hHiPER that TAUTHi
in the following clause must be understood as the antecedent: it comes to:
"... so I am here to give you this advice also, that you mustn't surrender
to these fellows even once what amounts to the helm of your mind's boat, to
follow along with them thither, wherever they should lead you, but
accepting only what is useful of theirs, and to know what you should look
askance at."
--
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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