[B-Greek] Eph 1:15 Provisional Translation
Carl W.Conrad
cwconrad at ioa.com
Wed Apr 20 16:48:21 EDT 2005
On Apr 20, 2005, at 3:59 PM, David Bielby wrote:
> It would be so cool to have an exegesis list that brought together all
> the
> components of sermon or research exegesis on a passage-having it
> organized
> by books of the bible and chapters and verses instead of by month and
> year.
> Then comments could build and be easily linked together over years. Is
> there such an
> animal?
>
> I initially ruled out faithfulness as an option for PISTIS because of
> the
> prepositional phrase EN XRISTW. My question is this if Paul wanted to
> emphasize faithfulness would he have chosen a different preposition
> like EWS
> or ?
>
> But the concept that we are EN XRISTW is so predominant in Ephesians
> that I
> can see it
> as an option now.
>
> The B-Translation list is something I've never looked at. May I ask,
> for
> Pastors
> who try to do all the steps of exegesis in sermon prep, what other
> lists
> would you
> encourage us to join besides B-Greek?
You might want to look at Barry Hofstetter's bibexegesis (Biblical
Exegesis) list at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bibexegesis/
Although discussion there overlaps some of what we do on B-Greek,
hermeneutical and doctrinal matters are open to discussion there as
they are NOT open to discussion on B-Greek. There's also a
Bible-Research list hosted by Yahoo that seems to be pretty wide-open.
I call attention to it without any endorsement:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bible_research/
These are lists that allow (as does B-Greek) perusal of the web-site
archives of recent correspondence; visit them and decide whether
they're your cup of tea.
> BTW-whoever recommended Zhodiates GNT on cd a few weeks ago.thank you.
> I
> received it
> yesterday and am using it with my sermon prep. I like it because it
> helps
> me read
> the text more quickly than I normally do..even though it's a slowly
> read
> version.
>
> Merci beaucoup!
>
> David Bielby
> Pastor
> <mailto:dbielby at bloomingtonvineyard.org>
> dbielby at bloomingtonvineyard.org
> www.bloomingtonvineyard.org <http://www.bloomingtonvineyard.org/>
>
>
>
> On Apr 20, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Jim West wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> David Bielby wrote:
>>
>>> Ephesians 1:15- DIA TOUTO KAGW AKOUSAS THN KAQ UMAS PISTIN EN TW
>>> KURIW IHSOU KAI THN AGAPHN
>>> THN EIS PANTAS TOUS AGIOUS
>>>
>>> I have a provisional translation as this. Eph 1:15 "So when I heard
>>> about
>>> your confidence in the master Jesus and affection for all his devoted
>>> followers,"
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure "confidence" carries the full weight of "pistis". Have
>> you at hand a copy of TDNT? The article on the "pistis" group is
>> excellent in terms of offering assistance in just the task you are
>> undertaking. When I hear "confidence" I think "here's somebody I can
>> tell a secret to who won't blab it". "Pistis" is a bit different. I
>> would try "complete trust".
>
> xI have no objection to "complete trust," but I like "faithfulness" for
> xPISTIS here, especially inasmuch as the evidence in terms of concrete
> xbehavior of the "faithfulness" of this congregation is what the author
> xis most likely to have heard about.
>
>> "master" i like. "Lord" is pretty much empty of meaning to we
>> moderns.
>
> xI agree that "Lord" carries fundamentally the sense of a proper name.
> xOn the other hand, "master" probably has connotations that aren't
> xappropriate (that would be an interesting focus of discussion in
> xitself, I rather think); I'm not altogether serious, but I wonder
> about
> x"boss" or "chief" or "commander."
>
>> Likewise, your rendering of "agape" with "affection" seems a weakening
>> of the intention. "agape" isn't mere affection. Indeed, it surpasses
>> that by 10 fold. And again, TDNT is terribly helpful with offering a
>> semantic field that will assist you. I would suggest something along
>> the lines of "unreserved love".
>
> xI've played in the past with alternatives to "love" for AGAPH and have
> xpreviously adopted "loving kindness," knowing that different contexts
> xmight call for different English equivalents (if there really IS an
> xEnglish equivalent); I sometimes think "devotion" or "commitment"
> might
> xserve very well for it.
>
>> "devoted followers" - I like that too. That gets to the very heart of
>> "agious".
>
> xI'd question that assertion; I think that hAGIOI as used here refers
> xrather to the status of members of a believing community as somehow
> x"set-apart" and "holy." This isn't very good, but I'd suggest
> something
> xlike "God's special people."
>
> xProbably this whole exercise would be more appropriate to the
> xB-Translation list, but it probably does us well to give thought from
> xtime to time to the unthinking assumption that conventional
> equivalents
> xfor PISTIS and AGAPH and hAGIOI carry much resonance with ordinary
> xEnglish readers.
>
> xCarl W. Conrad
> xDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
> x1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
> xcwconrad at ioa.com
> <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek>
> xWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
>
>
>
> ---
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>
>
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at ioa.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
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