[B-Greek] Eph 1:15 Provisional Translation

David Bielby dbielby at bloomingtonvineyard.org
Wed Apr 20 15:59:59 EDT 2005


It would be so cool to have an exegesis list that brought together all the
components of sermon or research exegesis on a passage-having it organized
by books of the bible and chapters and verses instead of by month and year. 
Then comments could build and be easily linked together over years.  Is
there such an
animal?
 
I initially ruled out faithfulness as an option for PISTIS because of the
prepositional phrase EN XRISTW.  My question is this if Paul wanted to 
emphasize faithfulness would he have chosen a different preposition like EWS
or ?
 
But the concept that we are EN XRISTW is so predominant in Ephesians that I
can see it 
as an option now. 
 
The B-Translation list is something I've never looked at.  May I ask, for
Pastors
who try to do all the steps of exegesis in sermon prep, what other lists
would you 
encourage us to join besides B-Greek?  
 
BTW-whoever recommended Zhodiates GNT on cd a few weeks ago.thank you.  I
received it
yesterday and am using it with my sermon prep.  I like it because it helps
me read 
the text more quickly than I normally do..even though it's a slowly read
version.
 
Merci beaucoup!
 
David Bielby
Pastor
 <mailto:dbielby at bloomingtonvineyard.org> dbielby at bloomingtonvineyard.org
www.bloomingtonvineyard.org <http://www.bloomingtonvineyard.org/> 
 
 
 
On Apr 20, 2005, at 3:13 PM, Jim West wrote:
 
>
>
> David Bielby wrote:
>
>> Ephesians 1:15- DIA TOUTO KAGW AKOUSAS THN KAQ UMAS PISTIN EN TW 
>> KURIW IHSOU KAI THN AGAPHN
>> THN EIS PANTAS TOUS AGIOUS
>>
>> I have a provisional translation as this. Eph 1:15   "So when I heard 
>> about
>> your confidence in the master Jesus and affection for all his devoted
>> followers,"
>>
>
> I'm not sure "confidence" carries the full weight of "pistis".  Have 
> you at hand a copy of TDNT?  The article on the "pistis" group is 
> excellent in terms of offering assistance in just the task you are 
> undertaking.  When I hear "confidence" I think "here's somebody I can 
> tell a secret to who won't blab it".  "Pistis" is a bit different.  I 
> would try "complete trust".
 
xI have no objection to "complete trust," but I like "faithfulness" for 
xPISTIS here, especially inasmuch as the evidence in terms of concrete 
xbehavior of the "faithfulness" of this congregation is what the author 
xis most likely to have heard about.
 
> "master" i like.  "Lord" is pretty much empty of meaning to we moderns.
 
xI agree that "Lord" carries fundamentally the sense of a proper name. 
xOn the other hand, "master" probably has connotations that aren't 
xappropriate (that would be an interesting focus of discussion in 
xitself, I rather think); I'm not altogether serious, but I wonder about 
x"boss" or "chief" or "commander."
 
> Likewise, your rendering of "agape" with "affection" seems a weakening 
> of the intention.  "agape" isn't mere affection.  Indeed, it surpasses 
> that by 10 fold.  And again, TDNT is terribly helpful with offering a 
> semantic field that will assist you.  I would suggest something along 
> the lines of "unreserved love".
 
xI've played in the past with alternatives to "love" for AGAPH and have 
xpreviously adopted "loving kindness," knowing that different contexts 
xmight call for different English equivalents (if there really IS an 
xEnglish equivalent); I sometimes think "devotion" or "commitment" might 
xserve very well for it.
 
> "devoted followers" - I like that too.  That gets to the very heart of 
> "agious".
 
xI'd question that assertion; I think that hAGIOI as used here refers 
xrather to the status of members of a believing community as somehow 
x"set-apart" and "holy." This isn't very good, but I'd suggest something 
xlike "God's special people."
 
xProbably this whole exercise would be more appropriate to the 
xB-Translation list, but it probably does us well to give thought from 
xtime to time to the unthinking assumption that conventional equivalents 
xfor PISTIS and AGAPH and hAGIOI carry much resonance with ordinary 
xEnglish readers.
 
xCarl W. Conrad
xDepartment of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
x1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
xcwconrad at ioa.com <http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek> 
xWWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/

 




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