[B-Greek] Eph 1:15 Provisional Translation

Carl W.Conrad cwconrad at ioa.com
Sat Apr 23 08:44:19 EDT 2005


On Apr 23, 2005, at 7:43 AM, Steve Puluka wrote:

> >> David Bielby wrote:
> >>
> >>> Ephesians 1:15- DIA TOUTO KAGW AKOUSAS THN KAQ UMAS PISTIN EN TW
> >>>  KURIW IHSOU KAI THN AGAPHN THN EIS PANTAS TOUS AGIOUS
> >>>
> >>> I have a provisional translation as this. Eph 1:15   "So when I
> >>> heard about your confidence in the master Jesus and affection for
> >>> all his devoted followers,"
> >>>
> >> Jim West wrote: "master" i like.  "Lord" is pretty much empty of
> >> meaning to we moderns.
> >
> > Carl W.Conrad wrote:
> >
> > I agree that "Lord" carries fundamentally the sense of a proper name.
> > On the other hand, "master" probably has connotations that aren't
> > appropriate (that would be an interesting focus of discussion in
> > itself, I rather think); I'm not altogether serious, but I wonder
> > about "boss" or "chief" or "commander."
> >
>
> I'm swimming against the tide here, but I see Master and Lord as two
> distinct concepts.  In liturgical Greek we consistently use three
> honorific titles for the trinity in a multitude of prayers.  They are
> KURIE, DESPOTA, and AGIW.  We typically English these are Lord, Master
> and Holy One.  DESPOTA is also the term of address for a bishop.
>
> I would argue that these terms when used as a title type of reference 
> should be consistently translated across the board and remain distinct 
> from each other.  If KURIE becomes master that what is DESPOTA?  What 
> if they both occur in the same passage? There is certainly  a lot of 
> semantic overlap between master and lord and the terms could be used 
> synonomously for variety.  But even in that case I think the variety 
> should be preserved in the translation.

You may be right about liturgical language, and there's something to be 
said for retaining traditional language in translation (this really is 
a TRANSLATION question, I think); but (a) KURIOS is used in some GNT 
contexts for God, where it translates the "read" form of the tetragram, 
"adonai", while (b) it is commonly used also in the GNT for Jesus 
Christ. And insofar as the relationship between those, like Paul, who 
termed themselves DOULOI of KURIOS IHSOUS CRISTOS, is that of a master 
and slave/servant--precisely the relationship indicated in Latin by the 
words DOMINUS and SERVUS/I), the word/title is not merely a title but 
also a designation for one standing in a relationship of command over 
servant(s). For that reason, I think that, especially in a 
"provisional" translation, "master" is by no means inappropriate.

Essentially then, liturgical usage is one matter, understanding of 
connotations and denotations of the Biblical Greek words in the context 
of their own time and place is another.


Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad at ioa.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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