[B-Greek] EN with Genitive?

Carl W. Conrad cwconrad at ioa.com
Wed Aug 17 11:00:06 EDT 2005


On Aug 17, 2005, at 10:53 AM, Elizabeth Kline wrote:

>
> On Aug 17, 2005, at 4:06 AM, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>
>
>>> Perhaps there something missing, EN might be local without an
>>> argument.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> George is right -- there is ellipsis here (of DOMWi, DOMOIS, DWMASI
>> or the like --  and it is really a common one in Greek,
>> particularly older Greek. LSG lists this passage in the article on  
>> EN,
>>
>> A. With Dative,
>> I. of place,
>> 2. elliptic, in such phrases as ἐEN ALKINOOIO Od.7.132 ,
>> cf.Leg.Gort.2.21, etc.;EIN AIDAO Il.22.389 , Att. ἐEN hAiDOU (v.
>> hAiDHS): later EN TOIS TINOS PRev.Laws 38.1 (iii B. C.), Ev.Luc.
>> 2.49; EN hHMETEROU Hdt. 1.35, 7.8.d; EM PANDIONOS   IG22.1138.8 ;
>> ἐEN DHMOTIWINIDWN ib.2.841b21; EN TWN POLEWN ib. 12.56.14: mostly
>> with pr.n., but sts. with Appellatives, as, EN AFNEIOU PATROS Il.
>> 6.47 ; ἐEN ANDROS EUSEBESTATOU  E.IA926 ...
>>
>> Note that the passage in Eur. Iph. in Aulide is cited, but also
>> note the NT example cited: Lk 2:49 KAI EIPEN PROS AUTOUS: TI hOTI
>> EZHTEITE ME? OUK HiDEITE hOTI EN TOIS TOU PATROS MOU DEI EINAI ME?
>>
>
> Yes that is the way David Kovacs and E. P. Coleridge render it but
> take a look at Paul Roche (Euripiedes Ten Plays p251)
>
> "Brought up by Chiron, that god-fearing man ..."
>
> Roche is probably taking liberties, but his switching from location
> to agency makes me wonder about how he understood original. It is
> precarious to work backward from a moderately free translation.

An English version is not really a very good indicator of how the  
original text should be understood. That's why I've always thought  
that the Loeb Classical Library volumes were really pretty useless  
for those who don't have a solid grounding in Greek or Latin.

> I am not sure why Luke 2:49 is cited since EN has an argument TOIS in
> the dative case.
>
> Lk 2:49 KAI EIPEN PROS AUTOUS: TI hOTI EZHTEITE ME? OUK HiDEITE hOTI
> EN TOIS TOU PATROS MOU DEI EINAI ME

Yes, but there's still the genitive TOU PATROS MOU with an ellipsis  
of the dative noun on which it depends.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Emeritus)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/




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