[B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative

James Spinti JSpinti at Eisenbrauns.com
Tue Dec 19 11:56:03 EST 2006


As an added argument against a Semitic vocative here: both forms are genitival, which in Semitic would mean that they are suffixed. You can't have both a definite and a suffix on a Semitic word, since the suffix makes it definite.

HTH,
James

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James Spinti
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org 
> [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of 
> George F Somsel
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:51 AM
> To: Octavio Rodriguez; B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative
> 
> 
> I tend to question that this is a case of Semitic influence.  
> Even BDF which does subscribe to the view that it was a 
> "Semitic vocative" notes that this tendency is present all 
> the way back to Homer.  I would therefore tend to think that 
> this was an internal development of the Greek which certainly 
> would not have been discouraged by Semitic usage.  BDF § 147 
> also notes that 
> 
> "In the NT this is the case (1) generally with adjectives 
> used alone or without a substantive where the vocative is 
> clear; (2) with additions of all kinds to the vocative (Attic 
> SU hO PRESBUTATOS, PROCENE KAI hOI ALLOI), especially with 
> participles (§412(5)) which hardly ever form the vocative. 
> (3) Attic used the nominative (with article) with simple 
> substantives only in addressing inferiors, who were, so to 
> speak, thereby addressed in the 3rd person (Aristoph., Ra. 
> 521 hO PAIS, AKOLOUQEI)." 
> 
> Blass, F., Debrunner, A., & Funk, R. W. (1961). A Greek 
> grammar of the New Testament and other early Christian 
> literature (81). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
> 
>  
> george
> gfsomsel
> _________
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Octavio Rodriguez <octaviors at gmail.com>
> To: B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 11:24:38 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Question about the semitic vocative
> 
> 
> I have a question about the difference of a vocative such as 
> KURIE and a
> vocative such as hO KURIOS.
> 
> I have read that the first belongs to the ancient greek, and  
> the second is
> an influence of the the Hebrew where the article change the 
> nominative to a
> vocative.
> Thus, the article here would be the signal for the vocative. 
> Am i right?.
> For example in John 20:28 we reads  hO KURIOS MOU KAI hO QEOS 
> MOU, which
> clearly is a semitic vocative due to the article.
> 
> However some people who knew greek  grammar  seemed not to 
> see the article
> for this function, for example Cyril of Alexandria (four century)) who
> seemed to know grammar well, said about John 20:28:
> 
> 
> "Observe, too, that when he says *My Lord and my God, *he 
> uses the article to
> show that there was One Lord and One God. For he does not say 
> without the
> qualification of the article, KURIOS MOU KAI QEOS MOU*, *to 
> prevent any one
> from imagining that he called Him Lord or God as he might 
> have done one of
> ourselves or of the holy angels. " (Commentary on John book II)
> 
> The question is if Cyril was right about the grammar or may be he was
> unaware about when we have a semitic vocative.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Octavio Rodriguez
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