[B-Greek] Matthew 18:18
Carl W. Conrad
cwconrad at artsci.wustl.edu
Tue Oct 31 14:31:13 EST 2006
Welcome to the list, John! Good to have you aboard.
When we speak of the future perfect, we are most commonly referring
to periphrastic constructions using a form of the verb EINAI and a
participle. Occasionally we see periphrastic imperfects (e.g. Jn 3:23
HN BAPTIZWN; we see especially perfect middle-passive periphrastics
(e.g. Eph 2:8 ESTE SESWiSMENOI -- in fact, the periphrastic is
standard for perfect and pluperfect middle-passive verb-forms; it's
also standard for the exceedingly rare future passive (a rare
exception in the GNT is Heb 8:11 EIDHSOUSIN, which, though
technically speaking a future perfect of OIDA, here functions pretty
much as a future, as OIDA functions as a present-tense).
But the forms here ESTAI LELUMENA and ESTAI DEDEMENA are generally
considered future perfects (periphrastic) and are commonly Englished
as "will have been loosed" and "will have been bound" The same
content is expressed using perfect passives in John 20:23 AN TINWN
AFHTE TAS hAMARTIAS AFEWNTAI AUTOIS, AN TINWN KRATHTE KEKRATHNTAI.
On Oct 31, 2006, at 1:48 PM, John B. Senterfitt wrote:
> Hello Forum,
> This is my first mailing since joining the list, so please take
> this as a great big hello.
>
> Bert de Hann wrote as follows. Bert, I do not find "future perfect"
> but rather participle perfects and at this point I am going to
> insert a snip from Burtons Moods and Tenses.
> The Perfect Participle
>
>
> 154. The Perfect Participle is used of completed action. Like the
> Perfect Indicative it may have reference to the past action and the
> resulting state or only to the resulting state. The time of the
> resulting state is usually that of the principal verb. HA. 856; G.
> 1288.
>
>
>
> ({principal verb})? So does that make the subjunctive's the
> principal verbs? And if so it makes them function a lot like the
> "subject". Now that thinking may well not be according to the
> "Grammars" but it works for me.
>
>
>
> And now here is what I get, in part, out of the verse: The
> "subjunctive's" having an iffy aspect and directed at us, seems to
> put the monkey of responsibility on our back.
>
>
>
> I do not like bringing Rev 20:12 and 13 to bear on this but John's
> use of the preposition there translated "according" seems to put in
> focus every thing we have ever done.
>
>
>
> I know I will get comment from the group and am looking forward to
> reading such.
>
>
> Matthew 18:18
> AMHN LEGW hUMIN, hOSA EAN DHSHTE EPI THS GHS ESTAI DEDEMENA EN
> OURANWi, KAI
> hOSA EAN LUSHTE EPI THS GHS ESTAI LELUMENA EN OURANWi.
>
> My question is concerning the time relationship between the two
> subjunctives
> (DHSHTE, LUSHTE) and the corresponding future perfects ( ESTAI
> DEDEMENA,
> ESTAI LELUMENA .)
> Do these tenses say anything about when the binding in heaven
> occurrs in
> relation to when the binding took place on earth?
> A different way of asking the same thing; When the Church binds
> something on
> earth, does Christ promise that this decision will be (future)
> backed up in
> heaven, or is he saying that the binding on earth (if it is done
> biblicaly
> of course) is in agreement with what God has already decided
> (perfect.)
> I guess the difference can be expressed by translating the future
> perfect
> either as ...will be bound in heaven... or ...will have already
> been bound
> in heaven...
> Eagerly looking forward to a reply:
> Bert de Haan
>
> John B. Senterfitt
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
1989 Grindstaff Road/Burnsville, NC 28714/(828) 675-4243
cwconrad2 at mac.com
WWW: http://www.ioa.com/~cwconrad/
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list