[B-Greek] Lexical entries and "final meaning" - translation vs. understanding

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon Aug 11 12:12:57 EDT 2008


We really need to be clear on our use of terminology. We simply may  
not be using words the same way.

By "entry" in a lexicon/dictionary I mean an Item listed in serial  
alphabetical continuity at the left-hand side of the page.

"Lemma" (pl. "lemmata") is my term for the word-form used in the  
primary position in an "entry" (e.g. Greek verbs are usually given in  
the 1 sg. pres. indic. active or m/p, nouns in the nom. sg., etc., etc.)

"Definition" would be my term for the primary sense assigned by the  
lexicographer to the "entry." I'm wondering whether by "translation"  
in the Larousse English/French dictionary, you mean that the  
"definitions" given in English are translations of French equivalents?

When I referred to Larousse, I meant the French unaabridged dictionary  
(with French definitions).

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)



On Aug 11, 2008, at 7:43 AM, John Wilking wrote:

> Carl,
>
> I have a copy of Larousse English/French Dictionary and they call  
> the entries translations.  Why wouldn't we assume that the English  
> entries in BDAG were translations?
>
> John
>
>
> --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Lexical entries and "final meaning" -  
>> translation vs. understanding
>> To: jcwilking at yahoo.com
>> Cc: "B-Greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 10:25 PM
>> On Aug 10, 2008, at 5:36 PM, John Wilking wrote:
>>
>>> Carl,
>>>
>>> I'm first of all wondering about the bilingual
>> BDAG one that we
>>> have.  Does it have the same function as other current
>> bilingual
>>> dictionaries with reference to definitions?
>>
>> Yes, in my opinion. No dictionary/lexicon is perfect, and I
>> know that
>> there are some who hold a low opinion of BDAG, but I
>> personally think
>> it's very good. It does categorize the senses, it does
>> indicate usage
>> in terms of the time-range of Greek linguistic history, and
>> it does
>> present citations of and references to texts illustrative
>> of the
>> senses indicated.
>>
>> Carl W. Conrad
>>
>>> --- On Sun, 8/10/08, Carl Conrad
>> <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Lexical entries and
>> "final meaning" -
>>>> translation vs. understanding
>>>> To: "John Wilking"
>> <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
>>>> Cc: "B-Greek B-Greek"
>> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>>>> Date: Sunday, August 10, 2008, 5:25 PM
>>>> Ideally, I would think our Koine Greek lexicon
>> ought to have
>>>> Koine
>>>> Greek lemmata and Koine Greek definitions
>> carefully
>>>> categorized and
>>>> subcategorized in the same fashion as any other
>>>> same-language
>>>> unabridged dictionary such as Webster's for
>> American
>>>> English, OED for
>>>> British English, Larousse for French, etc. One
>> ought to pay
>>>> attention
>>>> to the Diccionario Griego-Español as well
>>>> (http://www.filol.csic.es/dge/index2.ht
>>>> m). Particularly important in any of these is (a)
>> the
>>>> endeavor to be
>>>> thorough (that endeavor will fail, but it ought
>>>> nevertheless to be
>>>> earnestly made), and (b) the citation of examples
>> of the
>>>> whole
>>>> spectrum of usage with some clear indication of
>> the era or
>>>> time-span
>>>> during which a cataloged usage is attested in the
>> literary
>>>> corpus.
>>>>
>>>> Carl W. Conrad
>>>> Department of Classics, Washington University
>> (Retired)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Aug 10, 2008, at 4:58 PM, John Wilking wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Carl,
>>>>>
>>>>> Should we view other bilingual dictionaries
>> the same
>>>> way, e.g.
>>>>> French/English or Chinese/English?  Or does
>> BDAG do
>>>> something
>>>>> different because it is dealing with a dead
>> language.
>>>> I have for a
>>>>> long time envisioned our NT lexicon as
>> potentially
>>>> becoming
>>>>> identical with a First Century Koine
>> Webster's, if
>>>> we can imagine
>>>>> finding such a book.
>
>
>




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