[B-Greek] MHTI question
Elizabeth Kline
kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Sun Jul 13 01:41:50 EDT 2008
Don't know much about Origen other than the standard (old) text book
treatment of the 'ransom' theory of the atonement. It looks like you
found you your answer in Smyth. The NT texts most often quoted as
examples of this use of MHTI are:
MATT. 12:23 KAI EXISTANTO PANTES hOI OCLOI KAI ELEGON: MHTI hOUTOS
ESTIN hO hUIOS DAUID
JOHN 4:29 DEUTE IDETE ANQRWPON hOS EIPEN MOI PANTA hOSA EPOIHSA, MHTI
hOUTOS ESTIN hO CRISTOS
This is mentioned in the NT grammars, Moulton Proleg. p192-93.
N.Turner p283, BDF 427.2.
RE: JOHN 4:29 and MATT. 12:23 I also looked at some of the modern
commentaries, Beasley-Murray (John WBC p58 n.h), R.T.France (Matt.
NICNT p473 n2), L.Morris (Matt. 1992, p314 n57, John 1971, p275 n22)
these works didn't add much other than to agree with Moulton or BDF.
Elizabeth Kline
On Jul 12, 2008, at 3:39 PM, James Ernest wrote:
> Maybe it's a question "with the effect of doubtful affirmation"? That
> would make sense. (Smyth 1772, talking about MH) . . .
>
> 2008/7/12 James Ernest <j.d.ernest at bc.edu>:
>> Regarding this passage from Origen's Matthew commentary:
>>
>> τίνι δὲ ἔδωκε <τὴν ψυχὴν αὐτοῦ
>> λύτρον ἀντὶ πολλῶν>; οὐ γὰρ
>> δὴ τῷ θεῷ· μήτι οὖν τῷ πονηρῷ;
>> οὗτος γὰρ ἐκράτει ἡμῶν, ἕως δοθῇ
>> τὸ ὑπὲρ ἡμῶν αὐτῷ <λύτρον> ἡ τοῦ
>> Ἰησοῦ ψυχή, ἀπατηθέντι <δηλονότι
>> καὶ φαντασθέντι> ὡς δυναμένῳ αὐτῆς
>> κυριεῦσαι καὶ οὐχ ὁρῶντι ὅτι οὐ
>> φέρει
>> τὴν ἐπὶ τῷ κατέχειν αὐτὴν βάσανον.
>>
>> TINI DE EDWKE THN YUCHN AUTOU
>> LUTRON ANTI POLLWN? OU GAR
>> DH TW QEW; MHTI OUN TW PONHRW?
>> etc.
>>
>> "And to whom did he give his soul
>> as a ransom for many? For certainly it was
>> not to God."
>>
>> Then what? Wouldn't MHTI expect a negative answe, like MH?
>> "It was not then to the evil one, was it?"
>>
>> LSJ under MHTIS says:
>> in direct questions, μή τί σοι δοκῶ ταρβεῖν; do
>> I . . ? (i.e. I do
>> not), A.Pr.959, cf. 249, LXX Ge.20.9, Ev.Marc.4.21.
>>
>>
>> But when he quotes
>> this passage in a book, Pelikan says "Then why not the devil?"
>> --which makes better sense given the sequel.
>>
>> What is the force of MHTI?
>>
>> James Ernest
>>
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