[B-Greek] LXX question, probably for Drs. Pietersma or Buth??
Albert Pietersma
albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Sun Jul 13 12:30:43 EDT 2008
Thank you, Carl, I would fully agree.
If one asks the question whether Jews of say I BCE - I CE used Greek
manuscripts of the Hebrew bible, the answer is a clear Yes. As but
for a single example, all five books of the Torah in Greek are
represented among the materials from Qumran.
What status these had among the Qumranites and beyond is difficult to
say. Given that the Hebrew text itself was fluid to at least some
degree, there would seem to be no good reason to believe that mss in
Greek were ipso fact of a lower status.
It should also be noted that the notion of "Septuagint" (apart from
the Pentateuch) is a problematic concept in the early period. Note
for example that in NT a number of Greek versions of the Hebrew bible
are attested. It might thus make more sense to speak of the Greek
bible versus the Hebrew bible, then to speak of the Septuagint versus
the Hebrew.
Lastly, even if one were to retroject the label "Septuagint" to BCE,
just what what would one assign to the so-called Septuagint in
distinction from the so-called Kaige/Theodotion?
Al
On Jul 13, 2008, at 5:41 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:
> There are a number of problems in the question as originally asked,
> and I think that question is rather tangential to legitimate concerns
> of this list, to begin with.
> There was no "true Judaism" before the Synod of Jabneh/Jamnia in the
> late first-century and the "defining" of orthodox Judaism by the
> Pharisaic rabbis as the only sect to survive the destruction of
> Jerusalem. Prior to that time there was no orthodoxy, no consensus as
> to any definition of a canon of acceptable "scripture." I think the
> question waives the whole question of the impact of the destruction of
> Jerusalem and the Temple as a cataclysmic event. But these questions
> are really tangential to Biblical Greek language or Biblical Greek
> text.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
> On Jul 13, 2008, at 1:34 AM, Mitch Larramore wrote:
>
>> Mark:
>>
>> Your observations may help me clarify some points I tried to make in
>> my first post. I think the point this guy was making is that
>> orthodox Jewish religious leaders/rabbis were the ones who rejected
>> the Christian's LXX. Many Jews could read Hebrew, but surely this
>> would not be true of the religious rabbis.
>>
>> The apocryphal 4 Maccabees is by an unknown author so this is
>> eliminated from consideration.
>>
>> Philo was too supportive of Christian doctrines to be considered a
>> Jewish rabbi who rejected the Christians. And he shows no awareness
>> of knowing Hebrew.
>>
>> The 'betrayer' of the Jewish people Josephus is hardly a model Jew,
>> and of course Paul is a Christian.
>>
>> I'm really interested in documentation of first century Rabbinic
>> teachers who quite often quoted from the LXX. I am assuming this is
>> quite common but I'm not sure. In other words, I would like to see a
>> few specific names and quotes within your 'few hundred thousand
>> others."
>>
>> By "true" Jew I understood this teacher to be referring to anti-
>> Christian, Rabbinic teachers. And a rabbi would, I presume, know
>> Hebrew and Aramaic as well as he knew Greek.
>>
>>
>> Mitch Larramore
>> Sugar Land, Texas
>>
>>
>> --- On Sat, 7/12/08, Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> From: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] LXX question, probably for Drs. Pietersma or
>>> Buth??
>>> To: "B Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>, mitchlarramore at yahoo.com
>>> Date: Saturday, July 12, 2008, 11:16 PM
>>> No true first century Jew would quote the LXX over the
>>> Hebrew except for
>>> Philo and Josephus and the guy who wrote 4 Maccabees and a
>>> few
>>> hundred thousand others including Paul of Tarsus who in my
>>> opinion
>>> is the truest Jew of all....
>
>
>
>
> ---
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—
Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
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