[B-Greek] SWSON ... EK in JOHN 12:27
Eric Inman
eric.inman at wescorpflex.com
Thu Mar 6 19:32:36 EST 2008
Elizabeth,
My impression is that SWSON ME EK THS hWRAS TAUTHS in John 12:27 does mean
"deliver me out of this experience", but that the experience referred to is
not death but rather "this hour," which will eventually include death but
includes other things before it as well. I believe that Jesus is speaking
from the standpoint of being within "this hour," (NUN hH YUCH MOU
TETARAKTAI, for example) rather than referring to something that starts in
the future.
Do you think this is a possibility?
Eric Inman
> > From: "Elizabeth Kline"
> > To: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> > Sent: Wednesday, March 05, 2008 1:48 PM
> > Subject: [B-Greek] SWSON ... EK in JOHN 12:27
> >
> >
> >> JOHN 12:27 NUN hH YUCH MOU TETARAKTAI, KAI TI EIPW; PATER, SWSON ME
> >> EK THS hWRAS TAUTHS; ALLA DIA TOUTO HLQON EIS THN hWRAN TAUTHN.
> >>
> >> B.F.Westcott (John 1881) claims that the a number of commentators
> >> have misconstrued the meaning of Jesus prayer PATER, SWSON ME EK THS
> >> hWRAS TAUTHS. According to Westcott SWSON ME EK does not mean deliver
> >> me from having to experience "this hour" but rather deliver me out of
> >> the experience (awkward English). He wasn't the first to suggest this
> >> (see H.Alford). Westcott states that EK THS hWRAS TAUTHS should not
> >> be read as if it were APO THS hWRAS TAUTHS.
> >>
> >> Here are some samples of SWZW + EK in the NT.
> >>
> >> HEB. 5:7 hOS EN TAIS hHMERAIS THS SARKOS AUTOU DEHSEIS TE KAI
> >> hIKETHRIAS PROS TON DUNAMENON SWiZEIN AUTON EK QANATOU META KRAUGHS
> >> ISCURAS KAI DAKRUWN PROSENEGKAS KAI EISAKOUSQEIS APO THS EULABEIAS,
> >>
> >> JAMES 5:20 GINWSKETW hOTI hO EPISTREYAS hAMARTWLON EK PLANHS hODOU
> >> AUTOU SWSEI YUCHN AUTOU EK QANATOU KAI KALUYEI PLHQOS hAMARTIWN.
> >>
> >> JUDE 5 hUPOMNHSAI DE hUMAS BOULOMAI, EIDOTAS [hUMAS] PANTA hOTI [hO]
> >> KURIOS hAPAX LAON EK GHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS TO DEUTERON TOUS MH
> >> PISTEUSANTAS APWLESEN,
> >>
> >> Perhaps Jude 5 EK GHS AIGUPTOU SWSAS lends some support to Westcott's
> >> (John 1881) reading of SWSON ... EK in JOHN 12:27. However, HEB. 5:7
> >> is also a difficult text and Westcott (Hebrews 1891) seems to back
> >> off a little from his statements in the John commentary. He appears
> >> to admit two ways of reading SWiZEIN AUTON EK QANATOU in HEB. 5:7:
> >> "The phrase covers two distinct ideas, 'to save from physical death
> >> so that it should be escaped,'to bring safe out of death into a new
> >> life.' In the first sense the prayer recorded in John xii.27 was not
> >> granted, that it might be granted in the second." The first reading
> >> 'to save from physical death so that it should be escaped' runs into
> >> trouble at the end of verse 7: KAI EISAKOUSQEIS APO THS EULABEIAS.
> >> (See also Ellingworth Hebrews NIGTC p.288, Koester AB p.288.) In
> >> what sense were Jesus prayers and petitions heard if he was asking to
> >> escape the experience of "physical death"[1]?
> >>
> >> On the semantic distinction between APO + gen. and EK + gen. it seems
> >> that there is some overlap in NT usage. I am not certain how much
> >> weight we should place on this distinction.
> >>
> >> Elizabeth Kline
> >>
> >> [1] 120 years after Westcott's Hebrews the expression "physical
> >> death" seems to exclude some very real aspects of Jesus suffering and
> >> death, and what he might have been wishing to avoid if indeed he is
> >> asking to avoid here as in the prayer in the garden.]
> >>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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