[B-Greek] Further Study

Daniel, Robert S rob.daniel at hp.com
Tue Apr 7 15:54:16 EDT 2009


Maybe you don't need native speakers, but the natural way we learn our native language does involve native speakers. If we don't have the opportunity of being immersed in an environment of native speech, we have to do something artificial that is an effective substitute for the natural language-learning environment. I don't think grammar and translation is it.

I think that part of the difficulty is that children, before they begin to speak full-blown properly formed sentences, are exposed to a large volume of spoken language. They acquire passive language skills -- listening -- before they acquire the active skills of speaking, and before reading and writing. How can a learner expose himself to such a volume of spoken Koine Greek that he can acquire a solid foundation of passive skills upon which to build the active skills? Especially working on one's own!
Rob Daniel

-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Randall Buth
Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 2009 1:44 PM
To: Charles Johnson
Cc: B Greek
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Further Study

why are you looking for 'native speakers'? Isn't it possible to learn a language with second language users? language learning and use is a spiraling affair.
Randall Buth

On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 9:37 PM, Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com> wrote:

> I see what you're getting at. It makes sense. The ideal would be to
> participate in a community of native Koine-Greek speakers, where I
> could constantly be exposed to Koine Greek and learn and grow through
> the effort of composing my own thoughts in Koine. However, there is no such community.
> Unless I have constant recourse to native speakers, my own
> compositions will be horrendously Anglicized and without correction.
> Even when I do get an ok Greek composition, the telltale signs of an
> English speaker (sub-verb-obj; adj before noun) are still all too
> visible. Is there a way through this impasse?
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 2:24 PM, Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> you've just taken the first step. knowing that there is somewhere to
>> go is step one.
>> step two is tricky. language learning seems to take place at right
>> angles to what some might expect. a clue: if you had done 27 units of
>> German would you be able to express a few thoughts? would you have
>> more of an idea about how to go about it? the biggest paradox of all
>> is that you learn a language by using a language, but the learner
>> always asks how one can use what they don't know.
>>  Randall Buth
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 8:45 PM, Charles Johnson <cpj5117 at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Terry, thank you for the bibliography. When I say I can read, I mean that
>>> I can without too much difficulty take Greek and make English out of it.
>>> There are many times, though, when I do not comprehend the "why" behind the
>>> "what." I cannot always explain why a particular voice, tense, or mood was
>>> chosen, or why a certain word ordering. In fact, my classes focused very
>>> little on word order.
>>>
>>> Dr. Buth, I tried. It didn't go so well. I have done very limited
>>> composition (especially oral). I also have no background in Classical Greek,
>>> a detriment I'm sure. It was a useful exercise in showing me I have a long
>>> way to go. It strikes me, though, that I have to improve my skill at
>>> understanding what's really going on in the Greek language before I can
>>> replicate it myself. Any suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 7, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>wrote:
>>>
>>>> >I am looking for recommendations for further study
>>>> resources/programs/readings. I am a seminarian who has completed about
>>>> 27
>>>> credit hours of Biblical Greek. I am comfortable reading in almost all
>>>> of
>>>> the NT (Hebrews is still hard) and have a grammatical understanding at
>>>> about
>>>> the level of Wallace's *Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics*. I am
>>>> particularly
>>>> interested in resources that will help me apprehend the grammar more
>>>> precisely.
>>>> Thanks for all the wisdom,
>>>> Charlie Johnson>
>>>>
>>>> It is important to discovrer what one doesn't know so that it gets
>>>> filled in.
>>>> Try speaking your next three thoughts to yourself in Koine Greek, and
>>>> see
>>>> if you don't discover something.
>>>> Randall Buth
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Randall Buth, PhD
>>>> www.biblicalulpan.org
>>>> randallbuth at gmail.com
>>>> Biblical Language Center
>>>> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Randall Buth, PhD
>> www.biblicalulpan.org
>> randallbuth at gmail.com
>> Biblical Language Center
>> Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
>>
>>
>


--
Randall Buth, PhD
www.biblicalulpan.org
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life
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