[B-Greek] Job 13:20 χρήσῃ [CRHSHi]
Tom Moore
tom at katabiblon.com
Mon Sep 21 21:00:16 EDT 2009
Sorry, Dr. Pietersma, I had no intention to suggest that. I think "live in accordance with" is actually less readable than "indulge." But I had failed to connect "indulge" to any of the senses of CRAOMAI (which I know as "to use") listed in BDAG.
Since "live in accordance with" are BDAG's exact words, I employed (εχρησαμην) them only to identify the specific sense as listed in BDAG that I think fits Job 13:20. Other expressions that I'm playing with that I think could fit this sense are "be mindful of" or "be respecters of."
Sincerely,
Tom
> -------Original Message-------
> From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Job 13:20 χρήσῃ [CRHSHi]
> Sent: Sep 21 '09 23:09
>
> You are thus suggesting that NETS Job 13:20 be amended to "you will
> live in accordance with two things for me"?
> Al
> On Sep 21, 2009, at 6:18 PM, Tom Moore wrote:
>
> > CRAOMAI makes sense to me now. BDAG (s.v. CRAOMAI 1 a) has "Of
> > law...tois nomois, live in accordance with the laws", which seems
> > the right fit for the context: "you will live in accordance with two
> > things for me: withdraw your hand from me, and let fear of you not
> > terrify me."
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Tom
> >
> >
> >> -------Original Message-------
> >> From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
> >> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Job 13:20 χρήσῃ [CRHSHi]
> >> Sent: Sep 21 '09 21:49
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sep 21, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Carl Conrad wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Sep 21, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Tom Moore wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Job 13:20:
> >>>> δυεῖν δέ μοι χρήσῃ τότε ἀπὸ τοῦ
> >>>> προσώπου σου οὐ κρυβήσομαι
> >>>> DUEIN DE MOI CRHSHi TOTE APO TOU PROSWPOU SOU KRUBHSOMAI
> >>>>
> >>>> Brenton translates: "But grant to me two things; then I will not
> >>>> hide myself from thy face."
> >>>> NETSS translates: "But you shall indulge me in two things: then I
> >>>> will not hide myself from your face."
> >> Not to be overlooked is that (as NETS makes clear) the two clauses
> >> you
> >> cite are not continuous text. The first clause belongs to the Old
> >> Greek text of Job, while the second one is a line from Theodotion.
> >> Thus the colon at the end of the first clause presupposes v. 21, not
> >> the intrusive line from Theodotion. Thus the Old Greek text reads:
> >> But
> >> you shall indulge me in two things: withdraw your hand from me, and
> >> let fear of you not terrify me.
> >>
> >> Al
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> What word is CRHSHi: KICRHMI or CRAOMAI? What is its parsing?
> >>>
> >>> CRHSHi from CRAOMAI
> >>> 2 sg. fut. middle
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> CRAOMAI is a verb that is so idiosyncratically idiomatic that one
> >>> really needs to see it in a whole slew of instances to get a good
> >>> grip
> >>> on it.
> >>> BDAG has a pretty good accounting of it; one should also read
> >>> carefully through the entire LSJ entry (under χράω CRAW).
> >>> It means pretty much what the French verb "se servir de" means:
> >>> "take
> >>> advantage of, make use of, avail oneself of, associate with, deal
> >>> with
> >>> (i.e. do business with ...) "
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Assuming KICRHMI means "lend/furnish with" and CRAOMAI means "use",
> >>>> it looks to me like a middle-passive of KICRHMI (2nd sg, either fut
> >>>> ind or 1aor sub), but if KICRHMI, I'm confused why it isn't active
> >>>> voice.
> >>>
> >>> KICRHMI is really the same verb: the active causative of a verb that
> >>> is fundamentally middle.
> >>>
> >>> DUEIN is interesting; it's evidently the phonetic spelling of what
> >>> is
> >>> ordinarily DUOIN, the old genitive/dative form; here the OI is
> >>> itacized.
> >>>
> >>> Carl W. Conrad
> >>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ---
> >>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> >>> B-Greek mailing list
> >>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> >>
> >> —
> >> Albert Pietersma PhD
> >> 21 Cross Street,
> >> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
> >> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
> >> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
> >>
> >>
> >
>
> —
> Albert Pietersma PhD
> 21 Cross Street,
> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
>
>
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