[B-Greek] Job 13:20 χρήσῃ [CRHSHi]

Tom Moore tom at katabiblon.com
Mon Sep 21 21:00:16 EDT 2009


Sorry, Dr. Pietersma, I had no intention to suggest that. I think "live in accordance with" is actually less readable than "indulge." But I had failed to connect "indulge" to any of the senses of CRAOMAI (which I know as "to use") listed in BDAG.

Since "live in accordance with" are BDAG's exact words, I employed (εχρησαμην) them only to identify the specific sense as listed in BDAG that I think fits Job 13:20. Other expressions that I'm playing with that I think could fit this sense are "be mindful of" or "be respecters of."

Sincerely,
Tom

>  -------Original Message-------
>  From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
>  Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Job 13:20 χρήσῃ [CRHSHi]
>  Sent: Sep 21 '09 23:09
>  
>  You are thus suggesting that NETS Job 13:20 be amended to "you will  
>  live in accordance with two things for me"?
>  Al
>  On Sep 21, 2009, at 6:18 PM, Tom Moore wrote:
>  
>  > CRAOMAI makes sense to me now. BDAG (s.v. CRAOMAI 1 a) has "Of  
>  > law...tois nomois, live in accordance with the laws", which seems  
>  > the right fit for the context: "you will live in accordance with two  
>  > things for me: withdraw your hand from me, and let fear of you not  
>  > terrify me."
>  >
>  > Thanks,
>  > Tom
>  >
>  >
>  >> -------Original Message-------
>  >> From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
>  >> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Job 13:20 χρήσῃ [CRHSHi]
>  >> Sent: Sep 21 '09 21:49
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> On Sep 21, 2009, at 5:17 PM, Carl Conrad wrote:
>  >>
>  >>>
>  >>> On Sep 21, 2009, at 4:42 PM, Tom Moore wrote:
>  >>>
>  >>>> Job 13:20:
>  >>>> δυεῖν δέ μοι χρήσῃ τότε ἀπὸ τοῦ
>  >>>> προσώπου σου οὐ κρυβήσομαι
>  >>>> DUEIN DE MOI CRHSHi TOTE APO TOU PROSWPOU SOU KRUBHSOMAI
>  >>>>
>  >>>> Brenton translates: "But grant to me two things; then I will not
>  >>>> hide myself from thy face."
>  >>>> NETSS translates: "But you shall indulge me in two things: then I
>  >>>> will not hide myself from your face."
>  >> Not to be overlooked is that (as NETS makes clear) the two clauses  
>  >> you
>  >> cite are not continuous text. The first clause belongs to the Old
>  >> Greek text of Job, while the second one is a line from Theodotion.
>  >> Thus the colon at the end of the first clause presupposes v. 21, not
>  >> the intrusive line from Theodotion. Thus the Old Greek text reads:  
>  >> But
>  >> you shall indulge me in two things: withdraw your hand from me, and
>  >> let fear of you not terrify me.
>  >>
>  >> Al
>  >>
>  >>>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> What word is CRHSHi: KICRHMI or CRAOMAI? What is its parsing?
>  >>>
>  >>> CRHSHi from CRAOMAI
>  >>> 2 sg. fut. middle
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> CRAOMAI is a verb that is so idiosyncratically idiomatic that one
>  >>> really needs to see it in a whole slew of instances to get a good  
>  >>> grip
>  >>> on it.
>  >>> BDAG has a pretty good accounting of it; one should also read
>  >>> carefully through the entire LSJ entry (under χράω CRAW).
>  >>> It means pretty much what the French verb "se servir de" means:  
>  >>> "take
>  >>> advantage of, make use of, avail oneself of, associate with, deal  
>  >>> with
>  >>> (i.e. do business with ...) "
>  >>>
>  >>>>
>  >>>> Assuming KICRHMI means "lend/furnish with" and CRAOMAI means "use",
>  >>>> it looks to me like a middle-passive of KICRHMI (2nd sg, either fut
>  >>>> ind or 1aor sub), but if KICRHMI, I'm confused why it isn't active
>  >>>> voice.
>  >>>
>  >>> KICRHMI is really the same verb: the active causative of a verb that
>  >>> is fundamentally middle.
>  >>>
>  >>> DUEIN is interesting; it's evidently the phonetic spelling of what  
>  >>> is
>  >>> ordinarily DUOIN, the old genitive/dative form; here the OI is
>  >>> itacized.
>  >>>
>  >>> Carl W. Conrad
>  >>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>>
>  >>> ---
>  >>> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>  >>> B-Greek mailing list
>  >>> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>  >>> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>  >>
>  >> —
>  >> Albert Pietersma PhD
>  >> 21 Cross Street,
>  >> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
>  >> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
>  >> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
>  >>
>  >>
>  >
>  
>>  Albert Pietersma PhD
>  21 Cross Street,
>  Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
>  Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
>  Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
>  
>  



More information about the B-Greek mailing list