[B-Greek] The Last Trump
Carl Conrad
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon Oct 4 07:00:03 EDT 2010
On Oct 3, 2010, at 11:51 PM, Timothy Lawson wrote:
> Thanks Louis!
>
> I have a hard time knowing when to give up on trying to find a way to bring
> out the idea of participation/self-interest in the middle voice.
I think it is a mistake to expect active voluntary participation of the subject in every
middle-voice verb. GINOMAI is used of being born or, with adjective or adverbial
expressions, of entering into a state. While some middle-voice forms are transitive
verbs and emphasize the subject's active participation, e.g. KTAOMAI "acquire",
quite a few middle-voice verbs are intransitive verbs of process, e.g. ΕΡΕUQOMAI
'turn red.' EGEIROMAI means "wake up" -- something that may happen spontaneously
or through external agency, but it can also mean "get up/rise up" from a seated or
reclining position, just like ANISTAMAI.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> ________________________________
> From: Louis Sorenson <llsorenson at hotmail.com>
> To: B-Greek List mail to all <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 7:37:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] The Last Trump
>
>
>
> O TIMOQEOS EGRAYE......Timothy wrote...
>
> With that kind encouragement from Mark, I'll ask a question.
>
> How might ANASTHSONTAI be rendered/understood? Inasmuch as the
> verb is in the middle voice and indicates a possible participation
> in the action, it is difficult to imagine how the "dead" can
> participate in their own "resurrection" if it is to be rendered as
> "resurrected".
>
> Louis says....
> Think of the song by Chris Tomlin.....I Will Rise... are you doing it?...
> Yes and no....you are not the agent..but the passive/active subject
> (A Koine Greek version - however incorrect can be found at
> http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/iwillrise/iwillrise.txt
>
>
> [Chorus:]
> And I will rise when He calls my name
> No more sorrow, no more pain
> I will rise on eagles' wings
> Before my God fall on my knees
> And rise
> I will rise
>
> TOUNOMA MOU KALOUMENON
> MHT' ECWN LUPHN MHT' ALGOS
> PETHSOMAI D' hWS hO AETOS
> PRO TOU QEOU MOU TA GONATA KAMYW
> ANASTHSOMAI
> ANASTHSOMAI
>
> καὶ ἀναστήσομαι
> τούνομά μου καλούμενον
> μήτ' ἔχων λύπην
> μήτ' ἄλγος
> πετήσομαι δ' ὡς ὁ ἀετὸς
> πρὸ τοῦ θεοῦ μου
> τὰ γόνατα κάμψω
> ἀναστήσομαι
> ἀναστήσομαι
>
> You participate in your resurrection in that it is happening to you. Hence the
> middle voice ---
>
> which does not definitely state that you are the subject or object of the
> action,
> but which states it is happening to you or you are doing it. The middle does not
>
> always mean the subject is doing the action or is the primary force behind it.
> But the focus is on who is rising --- you....
>
> Carl Conrad calls this subject-afectedness... if I've got him correct. He has
> written a
>
> paper on the middle voice that all should read....
>
>
> Timothy wrote...
>
> Inasmuch as the verb is in the middle voice and indicates a possible
> participation in the action, it is difficult to imagine how the "dead" can
> participate in their own "resurrection" if it is to be rendered as
> "resurrected".
>
> The dead will "rise" seems to be active in voice though it may be that the verb
> is considered deponent.
>
>
> However, if the idea is that they are roused from a sleeping condition (as is
> indicated at 1Thess.4:15) then participation could be envisioned, such as occurs
>
> at Acts 14:7 where Peter is "roused" and told to "stand up." In that text both
> forms of the word for rise/resurrection are used. Can "ANASTHSONTAI" encompass
> the idea of being "roused" from sleep with participation implied or would that
> be reading more into the verb than is there?
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