[B-Greek] The Last Trump

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Mon Oct 4 07:01:54 EDT 2010


On Oct 4, 2010, at 7:00 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:

> 
> On Oct 3, 2010, at 11:51 PM, Timothy Lawson wrote:
> 
>> Thanks Louis!
>> 
>>     I have a hard time knowing when to give up on trying to find a way to bring 
>> out the idea of participation/self-interest in the middle voice.
> 
> I think it is a mistake to expect active voluntary participation of the subject in every
> middle-voice verb. GINOMAI is used of being born or, with adjective or adverbial
> expressions, of entering into a state. While some middle-voice forms are transitive 
> verbs and emphasize the subject's active participation, e.g. KTAOMAI "acquire", 
> quite a few middle-voice verbs are intransitive verbs of process, e.g. ΕΡΕUQOMAI

As you may guess, that should have been EREUQOMAI (ἐρεύθομαι)

> 'turn red.' EGEIROMAI means "wake up" -- something that may happen spontaneously
> or through external agency, but it can also mean "get up/rise up" from a seated or
> reclining position, just like ANISTAMAI.
> 
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Louis Sorenson <llsorenson at hotmail.com>
>> To: B-Greek List mail to all <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Sent: Sun, October 3, 2010 7:37:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] The Last Trump
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> O TIMOQEOS EGRAYE......Timothy wrote...
>> 
>> With that kind encouragement from Mark, I'll ask a question.
>> 
>> How might ANASTHSONTAI be rendered/understood?  Inasmuch as the 
>> verb is in the middle voice and indicates a possible participation
>> in the action, it is difficult to imagine how the "dead" can 
>> participate in their own "resurrection" if it is to be rendered as 
>> "resurrected".
>> 
>> Louis says....
>> Think of the song by Chris Tomlin.....I Will Rise... are you doing it?...
>> Yes and no....you are not the agent..but the passive/active subject
>> (A Koine Greek version - however incorrect can be found at
>> http://www.letsreadgreek.com/songs/iwillrise/iwillrise.txt 
>> 
>> 
>> [Chorus:] 
>> And I will rise when He calls my name 
>> No more sorrow, no more pain 
>> I will rise on eagles' wings 
>> Before my God fall on my knees 
>> And rise 
>> I will rise 
>> 
>> TOUNOMA MOU KALOUMENON
>> MHT' ECWN LUPHN MHT' ALGOS 
>> PETHSOMAI D' hWS hO AETOS 
>> PRO TOU QEOU MOU TA GONATA KAMYW
>> ANASTHSOMAI
>> ANASTHSOMAI
>> 
>> καὶ ἀναστήσομαι
>> τούνομά μου καλούμενον
>> μήτ' ἔχων λύπην
>> μήτ' ἄλγος
>> πετήσομαι δ' ὡς ὁ ἀετὸς 
>> πρὸ τοῦ θεοῦ μου
>> τὰ γόνατα κάμψω 
>> ἀναστήσομαι
>> ἀναστήσομαι
>> 
>> You participate in your resurrection in that it is happening to you. Hence the 
>> middle voice --- 
>> 
>> which does not definitely state that you are the subject or object of the 
>> action,
>> but which states it is happening to you or you are doing it. The middle does not 
>> 
>> always mean the subject is doing the action or is the primary force behind it. 
>> But the focus is on who is rising --- you....
>> 
>> Carl Conrad calls this subject-afectedness... if I've got him correct. He has 
>> written a 
>> 
>> paper on the middle voice that all should read....
>> 
>> 
>> Timothy wrote...
>> 
>> Inasmuch as the verb is in the middle voice and indicates a possible 
>> participation in the action, it is difficult to imagine how the "dead" can 
>> participate in their own "resurrection" if it is to be rendered as 
>> "resurrected".
>> 
>> The dead will "rise" seems to be active in voice though it may be that the verb 
>> is considered deponent. 
>> 
>> 
>>  However, if the idea is that they are roused from a sleeping condition (as is 
>> indicated at 1Thess.4:15) then participation could be envisioned, such as occurs 
>> 
>> at Acts 14:7 where Peter is "roused" and told to "stand up." In that text both 
>> forms of the word for rise/resurrection are used. Can "ANASTHSONTAI" encompass 
>> the idea of being "roused" from sleep with participation implied or would that 
>> be reading more into the verb than is there?    
> 
> 
> 
> 
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