[B-Greek] Fwd: Gen 25.23 and the LXX, in Rom 9.12
Bryant J. Williams III
bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Fri Sep 17 00:20:11 EDT 2010
Dear Paul & Albert,
I would recommend reading the section of Beale & Carson's, Commentary on the NT
Use of the OT, pp. 639-641, by Mark Seifrid.
"Paul's quotation of Gen. 25:23, which follows both the LXX and MT, takes up
only the second part of the oracle given to Rebecca, who 'inquired of the Lord'
because of the struggle between the twin children in her womb.... The final
word, which Paul cites here, comes therefore as a surprising reversal, contrary
to expectation and custom: 'the greater shall serve the lesser.'... The Lord's
choice of the latter-born Jacob as 'the beloved son' is part of the pattern of
the story of Genesis, which has appeared already with Isaac, will appear again
with Joseph, and yet again in the blessing of Ephraim and Manasseh (Levenson
1993)" (pp. 640-641).
En Xristwi,
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Pietersma" <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thursday, September 16, 2010 6:54 PM
Subject: [B-Greek] Fwd: Gen 25.23 and the LXX, in Rom 9.12
Begin forwarded message:
> From: P R <prittman at gmail.com>
> Date: September 16, 2010 8:10:59 PM GMT-04:00
> To: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Gen 25.23 and the LXX, in Rom 9.12
>
> Greater and lesser. That would explain away the "problem."
> I was going to suggest that as an alternate....
>
> OK I'll be sure to look up the NETS before asking any more
> translation questions.
>
> Paul Rittman
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 5:00 PM, Albert Pietersma
<albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
> > wrote:
> You apparently have not read NETS.
> Al
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 7:33 PM, P R wrote:
>
> I have to admit I'm a bit surprised by your response. The
> translators of
> the NIV, REB, KJV, and ESV (and I'm assuming these translations
> would not
> all be following the LXX here) all interpret the words of both Rom
> 9.12 and
> Gen 25.23 to refer to older and younger (as does Brenton and the first
> Jewish Publication Society translation, with Gen 25). If you
> disagree with
> those interpretations, please explain.
>
> As far as your second question, no I don't believe there is any such
> doubt.
> That's one reason why I asked my question.
>
> Paul Rittman
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 16, 2010 at 12:15 PM, Albert Pietersma <
> albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> Aren't you creating your own problem by insisting that Rom 9:12 is
> speaking
> of "older" and "younger" when neither the Hebrew nor the Greek of
> Gen 25:23
> is speaking of "older" and "younger"? Moreover, since Rom 9 is
> explicitly
> about Rebecca and the birth of Jacob and Esau, is there any doubt
> that Gen
> 25:23 is being cited?
> Al
>
> On Sep 16, 2010, at 1:54 PM, P R wrote:
>
> I was thinking more along the lines of Paul's choice of words for
> "younger,"
> (elasswn). Because this wasn't the normal word that would be used to
> signify
> "younger," was this evidence that Paul was deliberately following
> the LXX
> here?
>
> Paul Rittman
>
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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>
>
>
> Albert Pietersma PhD
> 21 Cross Street,
> Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
> Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
> Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
>
>
Albert Pietersma PhD
21 Cross Street,
Weston ON Canada M9N 2B8
Email: albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca
Homepage: http://www.chass.utoronto.ca/~pietersm
---
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