From: Carl W. Conrad (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Tue Mar 11 1997 - 10:30:18 EST
At 9:04 AM -0600 3/11/97, Mike Adams wrote:
>At 9:33 AM -0600 3/11/97, Eric Weiss wrote:
>>Re: Dative in John 4:23
>>Is there any significance to the fact that in 4:20 ff. the woman and
>>Jesus say: "hOI PATERES hHMWN <EN TWi OREI TOUTWi> PROSKUNHSAN ...
>>hUMEIS LEGETE hOTI <EN IEROSOLUMOIS>> ESTIN hO TOPOS ... LEGEI AUTHi hO
>>IHSOUS ... OUTE <EN TWi OREI TOUTWi> OUTE <EN IEROSOLUMOIS> PROSKUNHSETE
>>I.e., does this immediately preceding and contextually-related usage of
>>EN as a place or perhaps sphere where one is to worship influence the
>>interpretation of the EN in EN PNEUMATI KAI ALHQEIA?
>I suppose you mean, Eric, the fact that the preposition EN is used with
>those place names in 4:20. Quite frankly, I can't see how that is relevant
>at all, since those are clearly Locative datives whereas EN PNEUMATI KAI
>ALHQEIAi really MUST be an Instrumental dative.
>I think Eric has a good question. I think this may be a play on words.
>Do we worhip EN (location)? She thinking in term of the outward form.
>He answers we worship EN, (manner), the inward worship of the heart.
>Couldn't he have used DIA or no preposition at all and to say what
>he meant. I think he repeated the EN to emphasize the point
>that it is a matter how not where.
I think this is possible, but I wonder how probable it is; we always have
these questions when we come to literary constructions like that: did the
woman and Jesus actually say these things this way? Did they speak Greek?
Or is this (assuming you're right) John the evangelist's way of saying,
"it's not WHERE, but HOW you worship." It's just that EN + dative in an
instrumental sense is common enough that one might well be wary of
affirming positively that there's a literary device here. On the other
hand, John does do that sort of thing at points where it appears
deliberate, as in Jesus telling Nicodemus, EAN MH TIS GENNHQHi ANWQEN,
where ANWQEN may mean "over again" or "from above"--and one suspects that
the pun is intentional. So I think it would perhaps be wrong to dismiss the
possibility out of hand that such a thing is going on with EN in the
conversation with the Samaritan woman; yet I remain rather skeptical that
such an intention is present--mildly skeptical!
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University
One Brookings Drive, St. Louis, MO, USA 63130
email@example.com OR firstname.lastname@example.org
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