Re: difficult text

From: Steve Puluka (
Date: Mon Oct 04 1999 - 21:17:31 EDT

<x-flowed>>At 11:24 PM -0600 10/4/99, Felipe Flores-Morelos wrote:
> >I'm trying to translate the Divine Liturgy of Saint John
> > Chrysostom, and I find a difficult text, maybe someone whishes
> > to help me a little: The text is TA SA EK TON SON SOI > PROSFEROMEN KATA
> >sa ek twn swn soi prosferomen kata panta kai dia panta) , Thanks.
>I think this is "What is yours (TA SA) from what is yours (EK TWN SWN) we
>offer to you (SOI PROSFEROMEN) on every occasion (KATA PANTA) and for
>every reason (DIA PANTA)."
>Carl W. Conrad
>There may be other accounts of the phrases KATA PANTA and DIA PANTA.
>Another way to express the idea, as I understand it,
>and in English that better fits normal English usage is: "Whatever we offer
>you, whatever the occasion and whatever the reason that we offer it, it
>belongs to you and comes from you."
The official English translation for the Byzantine Ruthenian jurisdiction
reads "We off to You Yours of Your own, in behalf of all and for all."
However, this comes to English through the Old Slavonic, which reads "Tvoja
ot Tvojich Teb'i prinosim, o vs'ich i za vsja."

I'm curious as to how close the English matches the Greek after the pass
through the Old Slavonic. This English is a very good rendering of the Old
Slavonic. My Greek is not this good yet.

This moment of the Liturgy is during the Anaphora where the bread and wine
are being consecrated. The priest is elevating the square piece of bread
called the lamb, representing Christ and offering this as a sacrifice to
God. Hence, the sense of offering to God that which is already God's, his
own son. This offering is made on behalf of all the people and for the
people's salvation.

See "The Divine Liturgy of Saint John Chrysostom" By Basil Shereghy or
"Introduction to Liturgical Theology by Alexander Schmemann for more

Steve Puluka
Adult Education Instructor & Cantor
Byzantine Catholic Archeparchy of Pittsburgh
Little Greek

>Department of Classics/Washington University
>One Brookings Drive/St. Louis, MO, USA 63130/(314) 935-4018
>Home: 7222 Colgate Ave./St. Louis, MO 63130/(314) 726-5649
>B-Greek home page:
>You are currently subscribed to b-greek as:
>To unsubscribe, forward this message to
>To subscribe, send a message to

Get Your Private, Free Email at

B-Greek home page:
You are currently subscribed to b-greek as: []
To unsubscribe, forward this message to
To subscribe, send a message to


This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Apr 20 2002 - 15:40:40 EDT