Date: Tue Feb 20 2001 - 02:47:17 EST
In a message dated 02/19/2001 9:17:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
<< Quotes from books and other references were presented here:
Thank you. But I was asking for quotes of the sources containing IAW. I have
the complete text of all of the published magical papyri in my library.
Specifically I asked for references from the books which might support your
contention that the LXX use of IAW was somehow linked with the use of IAW in
the magical papyri. Do you have any such evidence? Such evidence might be
more in line with the objectives of this List.
> This particular form of the divine name is commonly
> associated with normal Jewish usage. It is only later that IAW and many
> forms of the divine name became a part of various incantations and spells,
> we see in the Greek magical papyri.
> It is my perception that it is exactly the opposite; that is, Ia and Iao
> are not a common Jewish usage. and as for "later" PMich 155,3 is dated
> second century B.C.E. is it late to you?
First of all, we have plenty of evidence that both IA and IAW are common in
early Jewish usage. I have already referred to Origen's Contra Celsus (6.32)
and Diodorus' remarks (1.321). Do you so quickly discount these? If so, what
about the use of IAW in 4QLXXLevb? What about the use of IA by Origen,
Aquila, Symmachus, Jerome, Theodotian, Theodoret, Epiphanius and in the
Hexapla? Might the fact that both IA and IAW correspond to very early forms
of the tetragrammaton (YH and YHW) have something to do with the numerous
references from these and other sources?
Second, you have misread (probably by accident) the dating of P.Mich (193).
Even the reference you gave dates it to "2nd or 3rd century A.D." The most
recent work on the magical papyri gives the same date range (Hans Dieter
Betz, ed., The Greek Magical Papyri In Translation, 2d. ed. [Chicago: Chicago
University Press, 1996]).
So, YES, the second/third century CE (AD) is late to me when it comes to a
source that allegedly influenced the LXX's (and/or other Jewish Biblical) use
of the Greek transliteration IAW. This form is quite clearly a representation
of the trigrammaton, YHW, which both Rolf and I have mentioned. Do you have
any comment on this remarkably close phonetic correspondence?
> Regarding Jewish/Biblical usage, Diodorus (1.321) writes about Moses who
> "referred his laws to the god who is invoked as IAW."
> In Contra Celsus (6.32) Origen refers to those involved in the magical arts
> who took the name IAW "from the Hebrew Scriptures," which is the "name used
> by the Hebrews" (APO DE TWN hEBRAIKWN GRAPHWN TON IAWIA PAR hEBRAIOIS
> I couldnīt put it better: "those involved in magical arts" took the name
I am not sure you understand the source: Those involved in the magical arts
took the name from the Hebrew scriptures. Those who wrote the Hebrew
scriptures did not take the name from "those involved in the magical arts."
If you are advocating that the use of IAW in the LXX and/or early Jewish
usage was influenced by the use of the same by those involved in magical
arts, then the source above which states that those involved in magical arts
were influenced by the use of IAW in Jewish Biblical texts contradicts your
Your sources are late, too late to have influenced the presence of IAW in
4QLXXLevb. The opposite is likely the case, namely, the magicians made use of
the divine name in various forms, even as they did other Hebrew terms in
their Greek transcription, namely, SABAWTH, ADONAI, and others, often doing
so "in the Hebrew tongue" (PGM III.77, 119).
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