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[nafex] Digest Number 350



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There are 22 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

      1. Flames are for tentworms (was Country Boy)
           From: jhecksel@voyager.net
      2. Re: mycorrhizal  innoculants
           From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
      3. Re: Vetch )
           From: YankeePerm@aol.com
      4. Re: Re: Prunus germination
           From: YankeePerm@aol.com
      5. Re: mycorrhizal  innoculants
           From: YankeePerm@aol.com
      6. Re: Unknown attachments
           From: "Bruce & Joyce" <markie-ct@mail.chouteautel.com>
      7. Re: Tree Labels
           From: "Joseph D. Postman" <postmanj@ucs.orst.edu>
      8. deChaunac
           From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" <helbert@idirect.com>
      9. Re: Unknown attachments
           From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
     10. Re: Unknown attachments
           From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
     11. Re: American Persimmons-Female on Male Graft?
           From: LONGDISTSHTR <longdistshtr@shtc.net>
     12. Re: deChaunac
           From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
     13. Re: Unknown attachments
           From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
     14. Re: Unknown attachments
           From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
     15. Re: Unknown attachments
           From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
     16. Egroups Banner Ads
           From: Tom Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
     17. Re: mycorrhizal  innoculants
           From: "Doreen Howard" <doreenh@ticon.net>
     18. Re: Tree Labels
           From: mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>
     19. Jonathan Apple
           From: Ginda Fisher <ginda@concentric.net>
     20. arborsmith.com
           From: mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>
     21. Re: Unknown attachments
           From: "Betty Mayfield" <bmayfield@columbia-center.org>
     22. Re: Tree Labels
           From: Fluffy Bunny <the.fluffy.bunny@juno.com>


________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 1
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 07:03:01 -0700
   From: jhecksel@voyager.net
Subject: Flames are for tentworms (was Country Boy)

>

Gordon and Kevin:

I was not going to respond to Gordon's original comments because he was
correct.  Some comments/posts are best done off-list.  I will try to be mindful
of that in the future.  Reminders that the writer is getting off-topic should
probably be one of the things that is sent off-list.

> So go ahead and make me out as the bad Guy.

No, Gordon, you are not a bad Guy.

We are not professional writers.  It is very hard to judge emotional content in
the written word.  There are no facial expressions, no intonation.  It is
difficult to judge how the reader is going to perceive the message.  It is up to
the reader to give the writer the benefit of the doubt.




________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 08:12:41 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: mycorrhizal  innoculants

Hello,

Does anyone sell this innoculant in trial packets?  If it works as well as
reported, trial packets sold for $2 would make sense, it would drive a lot
more purchase.

Maybe, I am just too skeptical, but we all know about the placebo affect
and I really don't want to pay for that.

If anyone knows/sells trial packets I will buy a couple and run some side
by side trials.

The "show me" state,

Tom

Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Zone 5a

On Sat, 13 May 2000, Doreen Howard wrote:

> Donna,
> Rhizobium is the bacteria that affixes to legumes and traps nitrogen.  Funny
> thing, three years ago, I planted mycorrhizae-inoculated tomatoes next to a
> patch of Truimph de Farcy filet beans.  I didn't inoculate them with
> rhizobium, because the soil was in balance.  When I dug up the tomato plants
> about 5 months later to check on the root structure (after heat put an end
> to tomato production), I found nodules on the roots that looked like the
> nitrogen nodules you find on bean roots.  I pulled up the beans, and sure
> enough, the nodules were identical.  The rhizobium made the cross over to
> the tomatoes.  But, I doubt if the extra nitrogen did anything for the
> tomato plants.  An interesting occurrence, though.
> 
> Also, don't fret about all those tomatoes--food banks and soup kitchens will
> take all you can give them.  And, they feed lots of people with health
> problems who can use decent nutrition.
> Doreen Howard
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kieran or Donna <redherring@tnaccess.com>
> To: nafex@egroups.com <nafex@egroups.com>
> Date: Saturday, May 13, 2000 7:58 AM
> Subject: Re: [nafex] mycorrhizal innoculants
> 
> 
> >Gianni,
> >    What a story!  I must order that stuff immediately!  Water is only a
> big
> >problem when  we NEED it.  When it rains a whole lot and we don't need it,
> >we have plenty.   The big trouble is watering pots, as the hotter and drier
> >it is, the less likely we are to have water to spare.  I put my 2 citrus
> >trees in the ground every summer, eliminates watering.  Forget fruit in
> >these conditions though.  They spend their winters at various places,
> >usually friends houses, and get neglected, so they don't have the stored
> >reserves to get going in spring.  A friend took good care of them last
> >winter, and the lemon is in bloom now.  I'll get them with the fungus, I
> >have "control" summers to compare to.
> >    As a rule the garden does okay, I have hauled a lot of buckets from the
> >spring during some pretty bad droughts, and carried my stuff through when
> >everyone elses died.  (Luckily that spring kept running that year)  I sort
> >of imagined I'd have a fine set of symbiotic fungi, with all the organic
> >matter in the soil, but it sounds like this company has got some really
> >vigorous strains.  In fact, I have considered Doreen's comment on 250 lbs
> >fruit from a single tomato plant, and am wondering about the nightmare I
> >might have with my 100 or so tomato plants.  Of course, it would be the
> kind
> >of nightmare every gardener dreams of!  I tend to be satisfied with garden
> >production, but I would REALLY like to see my young fruit and nut trees get
> >going well.  They have suffered the most from the terrible soil we've
> >got...and no Dan, I'm not swapping, I got out of Florida because of the
> >awful soil and climate there.  Harvey Lisle, retired soil scientist and
> >NAFEXer, said Australian farmers would think they were in Heaven if they
> >could have a little of our crummier land.  They have only got about 1/2 of
> >1% organic matter in their soils.  Chemical fertilizers do not work for
> >them, that's why Biodynamics is a pretty big deal there.
> >    The real problem with the product I have is that the instructions are
> to
> >spray it on the ground.  I have a little 2 gallon sprayer, on it's last
> gasp
> >now, (I've given it as many lives as a cat jerry-rigging it), and I don't
> >fancy the thought of walking around with it spraying every inch of 1/4 acre
> >garden, then going for all the fruit trees.  Not my idea of fun, even if I
> >break down and buy a new backpack sprayer.
> >    I'm pretty sure that the 2 types of bacteria I have fix N and P, and
> >that's really all they do. With a name like "Rhizobium" you'd think they
> >would live in or with the plant roots, but I'm pretty sure that they are
> >free-living....no, that's an Azobactor that sets N on it's own.  This is a
> >pretty esoteric subject, we're not gonna be able to ask the county agent or
> >a regular farmer or fertilizer dealer about it.   Nor is the info likely to
> >be in my micro book, which is mostly on pathogens.  It's pretty strange to
> >think we're discussing products that are right on the cutting edge.  Do you
> >realize that product you are using could potentially bring down the entire
> >agrichemical industry?    Donna
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
> >To: <nafex@egroups.com>
> >Sent: Friday, May 12, 2000 11:38 PM
> >Subject: Re: [nafex] mycorrhizal innoculants
> >
> >
> >> Hi Donna:
> >>
> >> A couple of points.....
> >> I know your water or lack thereof and the probs you have because of that.
> >> I wonder if a more massive root structure of your host would help with
> >drought
> >> conditions? The host would be able to hold water longer with more roots?
> >> Better yields--- less water?
> >> The bacteria you speak of is that a bacterium used to thwart septoria and
> >vert-
> >> icullum wilt and pathogens like that?
> >> I just did a re-pot on a Mandarin.... It lifted out of the pot as one
> >piece ball
> >> and all!
> >> On a theory, I eat a lot of peanuts and save the shells. I line the
> bottom
> >of
> >> the
> >> pot with them to make it light for aeration and the web like fungus was
> >holding
> >> onto all the peanut shells as well! When I broke down the ball to loosen
> >it for
> >> re-potting the spider webs were throughout the entire pot and were
> >clinging to
> >> time release fertilizer almost microscopically. I saw the web interacting
> >with
> >> the
> >> main root ball of the Keraji Mandarin. I remember potting this only 2
> >months
> >> ago and using John Van Hazinga's idea with the shaker can. Only I used a
> >spent
> >> Metamucil can with drilled holes in the top and cover it with a baggie
> and
> >then
> >> screw the cover back on when I'm done.
> >> Anyhow, when I put up the Mandarin I just dusted the roots. I would
> >> guesstimate that I was lucky if I used even a teaspoonful in a 8 quart
> >pot.
> >> When you say symbiotic, that's an understatement!
> >>
> >> Best wishes,
> >> John- Z-5/6
> >>
> >>
> >> Kieran or Donna wrote:
> >>
> >> > Well, thanks to this discussion, I began watering my inoculant into my
> >> > tomato and pepper seedlings before planting.  I do not see any
> >improvement,
> >> > but I also went and looked at the company whose product Doreen and
> >Gianni
> >> > and Lon use, and it's completely different stuff.  The products I have
> >are
> >> > bacteria, whereas Bio-Organics products are fungi.
> >> >     ACRES USA has run several articles over the last few years about
> how
> >> > symbiotic fungi run in and out of plant roots and how the plant and
> >fungi
> >> > cooperate.  In one study, symbiotic fungi had been cultured from weeds
> >in a
> >> > field that had long been fallow.  The next year it was plowed and
> >fertilized
> >> > and planted, and the fungi vanished.   The same weeds had considerably
> >more
> >> > problems with insects and disease that year.
> >> >     I have been interested in these fungi, but might never have gotten
> >> > around to trying them if it haden't been for all your rave reviews.  I
> >will
> >> > probably split a jar with friends, and spread the information around.
> >Donna
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Special Offer-Earn 300 Points from MyPoints.com for trying @Backup
> >> Get automatic protection and access to your important computer files.
> >> Install today:
> >> http://click.egroups.com/1/2344/0/_/423498/_/958192430/
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >Get paid for the stuff you know!
> >Get answers for the stuff you donít. And get $10 to spend on the site!
> >http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/0/_/423498/_/958222737/
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> >
> >
> 
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Get paid for the stuff you know!
> Get answers for the stuff you donít. And get $10 to spend on the site!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/2200/0/_/423498/_/958276450/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 



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Message: 3
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:39:44 EDT
   From: YankeePerm@aol.com
Subject: Re: Vetch )

I've not seen vetch become rampant.  Generally when a nitrogen-fixing legume 
with low rampancy potential takes off, it is because its ability to fix 
nitrogen gives it a selective advantage over other crops.   As nitrogen 
levels rise due to increased fixation, grasses, non-fixing forbs, etc., will 
be better able to compete with the vetch.  

Another possible factor is root structure.  In the tropics, I've seen little 
mimosoid legumes thriving and green when everything else is crisped due to 
drought.  Their deep tap root is able to get at water.   Sometimes soil is 
compacted, and the plant withthe roots that can handle this thrive at the 
expense of plants less adapted to these conditons.  Often, again, these are 
what I call organic crowbars, plants with powerful tap roots that break 
through the compacted soil.   Eventually, they leave channels in the soil, as 
they die and taproots rot, that other plants can follow and the mix of 
species gets more diverse.  Generally grass, forb, legume mixtures will 
stablilize at a level of high diversity, but they may have a few extreme 
swings in the meanwhile.

If you want to favor grasses (but not bunch type grasses), mowing every time 
vegetation gets to be six inches or so will do it.   Or strip grazing, in 
which case you have a yield instead of an expense.  If you want low 
maintenance, leave it alone.  No doubt as nitrogen levels build from the 
activity of the vetch, grasses and the heavier feeding forbs will be stronger 
competitors and you will have a more diverse situation.

Wildflowers, especially composits, often colonize a poor soil.  Frequent 
burning will keep the soil impoverished if you want to favor these.  I'm not 
sure what the composits do, but they are clearly one of the early stages of 
succession toward a more fertile soil.  A number of them can be alleopathic 
(e.g. the goldenrods and the sunflowers), suppressing grasses and other forms 
of vegetation.  

For Mother Earth, Dan Hemenway, Yankee Permaculture Publications (since 
1982), Elfin Permaculture workshops, lectures, Permaculture Design Courses, 
consulting and permaculture designs (since 1981), and annual correspondence 
courses via email. Our nest online course begans in September, 2000.  
Copyright, 2000, Dan & Cynthia Hemenway, P.O. Box 52, Sparr FL 32192 USA.  
Internships. YankeePrm@aol.com  

We don't have time to rush.

A list by topic of all Yankee Permaculture titles may be found at 
http://csf.colorado.edu/perma/ypc_catalog.html
Elfin Permaculture programs are listed at the Eastern Permaculture Teachers 
assn home page: http://home.ptd.net/~artrod/epta/eptahmp.html


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Message: 4
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 10:56:12 EDT
   From: YankeePerm@aol.com
Subject: Re: Re: Prunus germination


In a message dated 5/13/00 9:54:30 AM, natvwine@cut.net writes:

<<The prunus around here (central Utah) are notorious germinators. 
several friends of mine joke about their plum and apricot lawns.
For a couple of years now I have been making 600-1000 gallons of prunus 
wine yearly (apr., cherry, plum, chokecherry, etc.) which is fermented 
with the pits in the must. The pits soon settle to the bottom (yes, I 
know about cyanide) of the tank and I take them out to the field by the 
five gallon bucket and throw them on the ground. Not very specialized 
but I now have countless seedling rootstock. Works great for apples and 
pears too.>>

Many years ago, when I was on the Fruition Project in Massachusetts, I had a 
cider-maker ask me how to get more seedling rootstocks.  I told him the same 
thing--spread the pomace on the ground and put an inch or two of straw over 
it loosely.   He had similar results--thousands of seedlings that he could 
let fight it out with disease, cold, heat, one another, insects, etc., and 
take the ones that did best.  

I've often lifted plants from cow-pats.  They eat fuits, anythng from 
asparagus to apples, and in the spring these germinate right in the pat.  
They are easy to lift and set out.  I once set up a farm-size asparagus bed 
this way at the Natick Community Farm near Boston Mass UsA.  I had fenced a 
beef animal on land I own in the Western part of the state, before I moved to 
the job in Natick, and when I went back to my land that spring, there were 
thousands of asparaguses (asparagi?) poking through the crusts of the pats.  
Handy.   Autumn olive spread around the pasture this way too and rosa rugosa 
(to get back to the family in question). There are no end of apple sprouts in 
pats from bovines fed mill pomace.  

We have tried leaving peach pits out to weather and stratify in Florida and 
they don't get enough chill (or else the squirrels get them--there seems to 
be an infinite supply of squirrels here.)  In other places where I;ve lived, 
such as georgia, peaches just come up in the compost or in the garden where 
we trench compost (our usual method).  

Dan Hemenway
Barking Frogs Permaculture, Sparr FL USA  Zone 9


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Message: 5
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:31:35 EDT
   From: YankeePerm@aol.com
Subject: Re: mycorrhizal  innoculants


In a message dated 5/13/00 11:55:16 PM, doreenh@ticon.net writes:

<<Donna,
Rhizobium is the bacteria that affixes to legumes and traps nitrogen.  Funny
thing, three years ago, I planted mycorrhizae-inoculated tomatoes next to a
patch of Truimph de Farcy filet beans.  I didn't inoculate them with
rhizobium, because the soil was in balance.  When I dug up the tomato plants
about 5 months later to check on the root structure (after heat put an end
to tomato production), I found nodules on the roots that looked like the
nitrogen nodules you find on bean roots.  I pulled up the beans, and sure
enough, the nodules were identical.  The rhizobium made the cross over to
the tomatoes.  But, I doubt if the extra nitrogen did anything for the
tomato plants.  An interesting occurrence, though.
>>

Sounds as though you had nematodes on your tomatoes.  Mycorrhizae do promote 
N fixing, but I strongly doubt that they promote it in tomatoes.

Dan Hemenway


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Message: 6
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 11:10:30 -0000
   From: "Bruce & Joyce" <markie-ct@mail.chouteautel.com>
Subject: Re: Unknown attachments

Can we get another service>-Lon Rombough
>

Some services will pay to get you in their clutches. Maybe the money could be
donated to NAFEx.
Joyce



________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 7
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 12:40:56 -0700 (PDT)
   From: "Joseph D. Postman" <postmanj@ucs.orst.edu>
Subject: Re: Tree Labels


In response to Lon's comment regarding pot and tree labels...

  We have explored various labeling technologies, as this is critical for
identifying both potted plants and field trees at the germplasm
repository.  For plants growing long-term in pots, we use the "plastic"
paper that Lon referred to.  This is a plastic paper-like material that
comes in 8 1/2 x 11 sheets, just like regular office paper, and can be run
through a laser printer or photocopy machine.  These can be cut into
assorted sizes depending on the labeling needs and affixed to holes in the
lip of the pot using a wire or zip-tie.  We punch a hole in each label and
put a metal grommet in the hole to reinforce this attachment point. Sorry,
but I don't have source handy for this material. The cost is about $.80 a
sheet.  Write back if you're interested and I'll track down a supplier.

  The other labels we have been evaluating the last two years are based on
the common Avery (or other brand) address labels.  You must use the clear
labels which are made of a thin plastic, and not the white paper labels.
THese are available in many sizes at any office supply.  Many computer
database programs and word processing programs come with templates for all
the standard Avery label sizes.  When affixed to a durable backing, such
as thin aluminum or galvanized metal, or scraps of vinyl house siding,
these labels have proven to be durable for two years so far in the field
without UV degradation of either the label or the adhesive.  I believe I
saw the suggestion to use vinyl siding for tree labels in Pomona a couple
of years ago.  Great Idea.  

Two important points to remember:

- Must use Clear adhesive labels, not white paper labels.

- Must print these on a laser printer, or photocopy from another output.
  Both photocopy and laser printers use a layer of carbon to  produce
  text or images.  Carbon does not degrade when exposed to moisture or 
  Ultra-violet light.  Do not use ink-jet printing for a plant label. You
  will discover very quickly that the ink used in most of these printers
  will quickly wash away.

  There are other technologies out there for producing attractive
permanent labels.  Mueseums and botanic gardens often used photo-etched
metal labels, stamped plastic or metal credit-card like labels, or
engraved bi-color plastic materials that expose an underlying color when
the top layer is cut away.  These involve purchasing expensive equipment,
or contracting with a vendor to produce.  Many sign shops or trophy
engravinig businesses can put you touch with companies that offer these
services.

- Joseph

        -----------------------------------
	Joseph D. Postman, Plant Pathologist 
	USDA/Agricultural Research Service 
	National Clonal Germplasm Repository
	Corvallis, Oregon  USA
	      postmanj@bcc.orst.edu
	      www.ars-grin.gov/cor




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Message: 8
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:33:07 -0400
   From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" <helbert@idirect.com>
Subject: deChaunac

Hello all
Out of approx 250 cuttings rooted of 25 varieties one rooted cutting was different
This deChaunac had regular roots at base, no buds were out, at 4" above soil level were 6 rootlets form 1/4" long to 1" long all withing 1/2 " of the top of cuttings.
I uppotted it as I did with the others.
Is this a defect, disease or what?
Thanks

Bert Dunn   RR4 Tottenham   Ont    zone 4b
HARDY GRAPES-NO PURE VINIFERA
temporary website www.sentex.net/~tolenio/hardyg


Bert Dunn   RR4 Tottenham   Ont    zone 4b
HARDY GRAPES-NO PURE VINIFERA
temporary website www.sentex.net/~tolenio/hardyg


[This message contained attachments]



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Message: 9
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 16:25:31 -0400
   From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Unknown attachments

Lon,

Glad you opened that.......... I'm relieved!
Thought I did something I wasn't aware of......
The pc chip gods must be with us!

Joyce,

I hear tell from moderators at eGroups that there is a fee you pay as a
list owner/moderator and have the luxury of running/
producing your list, banner/hidden file free. I do not know how that
works.
Perhaps that may be something worth considering......Since this is an
exclusive NAFEX list.
I for one would throw a few bucks more at my membership if I knew that I
didn't have to look at any more silly banners
or to have "panic attacks" for fear of spreading some horrendous Melissa
or worm virus!
Although, I am sure other folks may consider this a hassle to come up
with more money  for something that should be
"a given" with membership in NAFEX.
This may be one instance where the chat room may be a huge service. We
could all plan a time to meet in "our own" chat room
and take an on-line poll/vote?
Or at the least, stage a vote through the posts.
Merely a suggestion.

Best wishes,
John
NH-Z, 5/6

Bruce & Joyce wrote:

> Can we get another service>-Lon Rombough
> >
>
> Some services will pay to get you in their clutches. Maybe the money
> could be
> donated to NAFEx.
> Joyce
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[This message contained attachments]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 14:51:57 -0700
   From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: Unknown attachments

I don't mind the ads in the letters that much, but coming as attachments is
too much.  Though now the ads in the letters are starting to cause other
problems.  Like this letter - when I go to reply it won't let me write
anything.  I have to copy the letter to a new letter before I can write. 
That IS an annoyance.
Chat room wouldn't work for me - I don't have the time for it. 
-Lon Rombough
----------
From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
To: nafex@egroups.com
Subject: Re: [nafex] Unknown attachments
Date: Sun, May 14, 2000, 1:25 PM


Lon,

Glad you opened that.......... I'm relieved!
Thought I did something I wasn't aware of......
The pc chip gods must be with us!

Joyce,

I hear tell from moderators at eGroups that there is a fee you pay as a
list owner/moderator and have the luxury of running/
producing your list, banner/hidden file free. I do not know how that
works.
Perhaps that may be something worth considering......Since this is an
exclusive NAFEX list.
I for one would throw a few bucks more at my membership if I knew that I
didn't have to look at any more silly banners
or to have "panic attacks" for fear of spreading some horrendous Melissa
or worm virus!
Although, I am sure other folks may consider this a hassle to come up
with more money  for something that should be
"a given" with membership in NAFEX.
This may be one instance where the chat room may be a huge service. We
could all plan a time to meet in "our own" chat room
and take an on-line poll/vote?
Or at the least, stage a vote through the posts.
Merely a suggestion.

Best wishes,
John
NH-Z, 5/6

Bruce & Joyce wrote:

> Can we get another service>-Lon Rombough
> >
>
> Some services will pay to get you in their clutches. Maybe the money
> could be
> donated to NAFEx.
> Joyce
>


[This message contained attachments]



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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:57:21 -0400
   From: LONGDISTSHTR <longdistshtr@shtc.net>
Subject: Re: American Persimmons-Female on Male Graft?

LuckyPittman wrote:
> 
> Doc Lisenby wrote:---------
> >Thanks Lucky, now all I have to do is get "lucky" enough for some of
> >them to take. They ain't easy! Some say you have to sell your soul or
> >something like that. Doc Lisenby
> 
> Maybe it's cuz I didn't know any better, but I've always had pretty decent
> success in the past just doing simple whip grafts on persimmons, but have also
> had good success with bark grafts, as Lon described.  Chip budded some a
> couple of weeks back, wrapped some with budding rubbers and Parafilm, some
> just with Parafilm, most appear to have taken and are now pushing leaves.
> 
> Lucky
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Buy and sell used, rare and vintage gear at the Web's best
> music gear auction. Register to enter the weekly gear giveaway!
> http://click.egroups.com/1/3735/0/_/423498/_/958267380/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, it's a little late here but having been given encouragement by
Gorgo, Lon and Luck I'm going to try changing the sex of my seedlings
next year.
A nice NAFEX member from Tenn. who has since passed on to "rest in the
shade of the trees on the other side" gave me the seeds which produced
all these males. He had claimed to have come close to finding the small
seeded large fruited desirable wild sport. I hope at least one female
matures. I might have to rely on Early Golden or John Rick for my
scions. Thanks Guys! Appreciate the help. Doc Lisenby SC Zone yada,zada.


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Message: 12
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 15:00:52 -0700
   From: "Lon J. Rombough" <lonrom@hevanet.com>
Subject: Re: deChaunac

Sounds like the DeChaunac overreacted to the rooting hormone.  I've seen
this before - a variety will root all over the cutting, especially if the
atmospher around them in a rooting bed is very humid.   The hormone may have
inhibited the buds, so be patient.  It may take a while for any to push.
-Lon Rombough
Grapes, unusual fruits, writing, more, at http://www.hevanet.com/lonrom
 
----------
From: "Helga and Bert Dunn" <helbert@idirect.com>
To: "Greg Miller" <nafex@egroups.com>
Subject: [nafex] deChaunac
Date: Sun, May 14, 2000, 11:33 AM


Hello all
Out of approx 250 cuttings rooted of 25 varieties one rooted cutting was
different
This deChaunac had regular roots at base, no buds were out, at 4" above soil
level were 6 rootlets form 1/4" long to 1" long all withing 1/2 " of the top
of cuttings.
I uppotted it as I did with the others.
Is this a defect, disease or what?
Thanks
 
Bert Dunn   RR4 Tottenham   Ont    zone 4b
HARDY GRAPES-NO PURE VINIFERA
temporary website www.sentex.net/~tolenio/hardyg
<http://www.sentex.net/~tolenio/hardyg> 
 
 
Bert Dunn   RR4 Tottenham   Ont    zone 4b
HARDY GRAPES-NO PURE VINIFERA
temporary website www.sentex.net/~tolenio/hardyg
<http://www.sentex.net/~tolenio/hardyg> 









[This message contained attachments]



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Message: 13
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:31:24 -0400
   From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Unknown attachments

I merely meant that a time set aside on a date to possibly chat about
the vote or to take the vote to
pay for the non-service of the ads and such, VIA the chat.
Would probably only take an hour to get enough folks feedback...
But I can see your point, it's not a pressing issue.

Best wishes,
John-NH


"Lon J. Rombough" wrote:

> I don't mind the ads in the letters that much, but coming as
> attachments is too much.  Though now the ads in the letters are
> starting to cause other problems.  Like this letter - when I go to
> reply it won't let me write anything.  I have to copy the letter to a
> new letter before I can write.  That IS an annoyance.
> Chat room wouldn't work for me - I don't have the time for it.
> -Lon Rombough
> ----------
> From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
> To: nafex@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Unknown attachments
> Date: Sun, May 14, 2000, 1:25 PM
>
>
>
>      Lon,
>
>      Glad you opened that.......... I'm relieved!
>      Thought I did something I wasn't aware of......
>      The pc chip gods must be with us!
>
>      Joyce,
>
>      I hear tell from moderators at eGroups that there is a fee
>      you pay as a
>      list owner/moderator and have the luxury of running/
>      producing your list, banner/hidden file free. I do not know
>      how that
>      works.
>      Perhaps that may be something worth considering......Since
>      this is an
>      exclusive NAFEX list.
>      I for one would throw a few bucks more at my membership if I
>      knew that I
>      didn't have to look at any more silly banners
>      or to have "panic attacks" for fear of spreading some
>      horrendous Melissa
>      or worm virus!
>      Although, I am sure other folks may consider this a hassle
>      to come up
>      with more money  for something that should be
>      "a given" with membership in NAFEX.
>      This may be one instance where the chat room may be a huge
>      service. We
>      could all plan a time to meet in "our own" chat room
>      and take an on-line poll/vote?
>      Or at the least, stage a vote through the posts.
>      Merely a suggestion.
>
>      Best wishes,
>      John
>      NH-Z, 5/6
>
>      Bruce & Joyce wrote:
>
>      > Can we get another service>-Lon Rombough
>      > >
>      >
>      > Some services will pay to get you in their clutches. Maybe
>      the money
>      > could be
>      > donated to NAFEx.
>      > Joyce
>      >
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>


[This message contained attachments]



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Message: 14
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 18:58:20 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: Unknown attachments

Hello,

NAFEX has a webpage, possibly the service provider offers MAJORDOMO style
egroups as part of the subscription service.

Whoever runs the webpage could check into this.  If NAFEX is paying for a
webpage, then we should exploit the services therein.

Just a thought.

Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Zone 5a

On Sun, 14 May 2000, Lon J. Rombough wrote:

> I don't mind the ads in the letters that much, but coming as attachments is
> too much.  Though now the ads in the letters are starting to cause other
> problems.  Like this letter - when I go to reply it won't let me write
> anything.  I have to copy the letter to a new letter before I can write. 
> That IS an annoyance.
> Chat room wouldn't work for me - I don't have the time for it. 
> -Lon Rombough
> ----------
> From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
> To: nafex@egroups.com
> Subject: Re: [nafex] Unknown attachments
> Date: Sun, May 14, 2000, 1:25 PM
> 
> 
> Lon,
> 
> Glad you opened that.......... I'm relieved!
> Thought I did something I wasn't aware of......
> The pc chip gods must be with us!
> 
> Joyce,
> 
> I hear tell from moderators at eGroups that there is a fee you pay as a
> list owner/moderator and have the luxury of running/
> producing your list, banner/hidden file free. I do not know how that
> works.
> Perhaps that may be something worth considering......Since this is an
> exclusive NAFEX list.
> I for one would throw a few bucks more at my membership if I knew that I
> didn't have to look at any more silly banners
> or to have "panic attacks" for fear of spreading some horrendous Melissa
> or worm virus!
> Although, I am sure other folks may consider this a hassle to come up
> with more money  for something that should be
> "a given" with membership in NAFEX.
> This may be one instance where the chat room may be a huge service. We
> could all plan a time to meet in "our own" chat room
> and take an on-line poll/vote?
> Or at the least, stage a vote through the posts.
> Merely a suggestion.
> 
> Best wishes,
> John
> NH-Z, 5/6
> 
> Bruce & Joyce wrote:
> 
> > Can we get another service>-Lon Rombough
> > >
> >
> > Some services will pay to get you in their clutches. Maybe the money
> > could be
> > donated to NAFEx.
> > Joyce
> >
> 



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Message: 15
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:26:10 -0400 (EDT)
   From: Thomas Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
Subject: Re: Unknown attachments

Hello,

If you want to poll the NAFEX Egroup users just use the POLL feature that
comes with this Egroup list.

Check with a moderator if they want to do this.

Tom

Thomas Olenio
Ontario, Zone 5a

On Sun, 14 May 2000, J. Rosano II wrote:

> I merely meant that a time set aside on a date to possibly chat about
> the vote or to take the vote to
> pay for the non-service of the ads and such, VIA the chat.
> Would probably only take an hour to get enough folks feedback...
> But I can see your point, it's not a pressing issue.
> 
> Best wishes,
> John-NH
> 
> 
> "Lon J. Rombough" wrote:
> 
> > I don't mind the ads in the letters that much, but coming as
> > attachments is too much.  Though now the ads in the letters are
> > starting to cause other problems.  Like this letter - when I go to
> > reply it won't let me write anything.  I have to copy the letter to a
> > new letter before I can write.  That IS an annoyance.
> > Chat room wouldn't work for me - I don't have the time for it.
> > -Lon Rombough
> > ----------
> > From: "J. Rosano II" <GIANNI-2@prodigy.net>
> > To: nafex@egroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [nafex] Unknown attachments
> > Date: Sun, May 14, 2000, 1:25 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >      Lon,
> >
> >      Glad you opened that.......... I'm relieved!
> >      Thought I did something I wasn't aware of......
> >      The pc chip gods must be with us!
> >
> >      Joyce,
> >
> >      I hear tell from moderators at eGroups that there is a fee
> >      you pay as a
> >      list owner/moderator and have the luxury of running/
> >      producing your list, banner/hidden file free. I do not know
> >      how that
> >      works.
> >      Perhaps that may be something worth considering......Since
> >      this is an
> >      exclusive NAFEX list.
> >      I for one would throw a few bucks more at my membership if I
> >      knew that I
> >      didn't have to look at any more silly banners
> >      or to have "panic attacks" for fear of spreading some
> >      horrendous Melissa
> >      or worm virus!
> >      Although, I am sure other folks may consider this a hassle
> >      to come up
> >      with more money  for something that should be
> >      "a given" with membership in NAFEX.
> >      This may be one instance where the chat room may be a huge
> >      service. We
> >      could all plan a time to meet in "our own" chat room
> >      and take an on-line poll/vote?
> >      Or at the least, stage a vote through the posts.
> >      Merely a suggestion.
> >
> >      Best wishes,
> >      John
> >      NH-Z, 5/6
> >
> >      Bruce & Joyce wrote:
> >
> >      > Can we get another service>-Lon Rombough
> >      > >
> >      >
> >      > Some services will pay to get you in their clutches. Maybe
> >      the money
> >      > could be
> >      > donated to NAFEx.
> >      > Joyce
> >      >
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> 



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Message: 16
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 21:05:34 -0400
   From: Tom Olenio <tolenio@sentex.net>
Subject: Egroups Banner Ads

Hello,

Egroups puts those banner ad attachments as footers to our emails as a means of
allowing us to use this group email service for free.  What I don't understand is
why it is the only feature of the Egroup account that we are using.

Egroup also offers NAFEX;

   * email group
   * online file storage
   * calendar of events
   * poll questions to group
   * web links
   * database
   * chat
   * 20 meg of storage space

As far as I know we are only using the the email group function, and none of the
others.

So considering how much they are giving us, the banner ads are not too intrusive,
we are just under utilizing what is available to us

       http://www.egroups.com/group/nafex

Just a thought....

Regards,
Tom.


[This message contained attachments]



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Message: 17
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:21:44 -0500
   From: "Doreen Howard" <doreenh@ticon.net>
Subject: Re: mycorrhizal  innoculants

Dan Hemenway wrote:
>Sounds as though you had nematodes on your tomatoes.  Mycorrhizae do
promote
>N fixing, but I strongly doubt that they promote it in tomatoes.
>
No nematodes.  There have never been any nematodes in that area--ever!  I
took the roots to a friend in plant pathology at Texas A&M, and he concurred
that it was rhizobium crossover.  Only the tomatoes next to the beans had
this occurrence.  Tomatoes planted further than 3 feet away had no
crossover.
Doreen Howard



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Message: 18
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:24:38 -0600
   From: mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>
Subject: Re: Tree Labels

our lowbudget approach (actually free) to labels is aluminum cans cut into
strips, hole punched, extra long twistties which we found in the dumpster.  the
labels are written with an extra long dry wall screw.  just checked some labels
from 95 which are still completely readable.  we used to use the foil labels
from bear creek but the rabbits always seems to eat them, plus we'd rather have
the $40 they charge for 500 labels to buy more trees with.


miekal

dreamtime village | zone 4 wisconsin



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Message: 19
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 23:19:33 -0400
   From: Ginda Fisher <ginda@concentric.net>
Subject: Jonathan Apple

I live in New England, and notice that Jonathan apples are rarely grown
around here.  I used to get them in NJ, and I know they are grown in the
midwest.

Does anyone know why this is?  Do they not ripen well here?  Is there
too much fireblight?  Is it just a regional preference, with no good
reason?

I would like to try growing one, as my family likes them, and they are
locally unavailable.  Does anyone know a good reason we shouldn't try? 
I have very little room for apple trees, so putting in a Jonathan means
not putting in something else.

Thanks,
Ginda Fisher
Eastern Massachusetts, Zone 6


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Message: 20
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 22:30:24 -0600
   From: mIEKAL aND <dtv@mwt.net>
Subject: arborsmith.com

slightly off topic, but richard is doing some interesting things with growing
trees as functional sculpture, including something we are trying here at
dreamtime, growing "houses"....  the next step is to start working with edible
species including cherry, grape, nuts, apple etc.


miekal


excerpted from his newsletter.


"I am pleased to announce that http://www.arborsmith.com is now up and
running that's right I am now the master of my own domain! Update your
bookmarks and change those links please.  You can now e-mail  me by way of
richard@arborsmith.com"



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Message: 21
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 20:58:12 -0700
   From: "Betty Mayfield" <bmayfield@columbia-center.org>
Subject: Re: Unknown attachments

Lon and others,

This is not an e-groups problem; it dates back into the onelist days.
Checking back through the files I find that onelist changed over to
e-groups on April 3, but in mid-February I had an extensive private
correspondence with one member whose computer had sent 16 ads as GIF
attachments. He speculated that it was something to do with the list
service; however his messages were the only ones that came with these
banner ad attachments. After a short period the banner GIF attachments
stopped, but they resumed on May 9 and since then 13 have come. But they
are coming from only one computer. If it were an e-groups problem, then
everyone would be sending out these ads.

All of the messages from both onelist and e-groups have trailer ads in body
text at the end of each message, but these are inoffensive and easy to
ignore. But the GIF attachments are not. It means closing out one program,
going into another and deleting each GIF one at a time.

Of course there are a number of members who send a copy of their message in
HTML code into my attachment file, and these have to be cleaned out too.
This is because they have not turned off the "send message in HTML" that is
the default choice with new e-mail programs. 

I don't recall the list owner's saying anything about changing from onelist
to e-groups.

Betty


At 09:31 PM 5/13/2000 -0700, you wrote:
>I got brave and opened the unknown attachment on John Rosano's letter and
>found it was  an AD.  The BLEEPING Egroups setup is now adding ads to NAFEX
>list letters as attachments.  Can we get another service?  I REALLY don't
>need one that does that, and makes me think I've just gotten a virus.
>-Lon Rombough
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Save 75% on Products!
>Find incredible deals on overstocked items with Free shipping!
>http://click.egroups.com/1/4013/0/_/423498/_/958278602/
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>


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Message: 22
   Date: Sun, 14 May 2000 17:49:34 -0500
   From: Fluffy Bunny <the.fluffy.bunny@juno.com>
Subject: Re: Tree Labels

Gang:

One method  I know of to get plant labels, fancy or plain, is to contact
a couple of schools or shops for the developmentally disabled and pony-up
a little cash for a craft project.  In addition there are places that
serve as work facilities to the developmentally disabled...this gives
meaningful work to people who wish to work but are not able to function
in a normal work environment.    

This is not really a method of obtaining cheap labels, but for those who
are able to afford it there may be other considerations involved.

I have many a time been shocked at the craftsmanship of some autistic
people.   Some of them produce magnificent artwork with their hands.   

Just a thought...

			      the rabbit
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