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Re: [nafex] Apple Rootstocks for Extreme Cold, apricots etc..

Bernie, thanks, you make a convincing argument for topworking apples in our 
climate zone.  Any opposing opinions out there?      How do you feel about 
topworking other fruits, i have 50 each of the following--- pears( 
ussuriensis rootstock), plums(  prunus americana, and apricot(manchurian)  ? 
      How to avoid wind breakage and weight breakage from fruit,  in the 
horizontal grafts?    The Manchurian  apricots (or whatever they are, from 
Lawyers) 	 what fabulous growth, 4' the first year i put them in the nursury 
bed, and those georgeous massive pink roots.  Ive grafted moongold 
sucessfully onto 20 of them, then met an old nurseryman who said "youll 
never get an apricot off of either moongold or sungold here, spring is just 
too late.(last frost mean date is june 10).   ive heard of a producing 
apricot in the area with full size fruit , of course im hoping to track it 
down for scions. Any other apricot options?         You mentioned the 
battleford apple
in the article, i have fond memories of a trip there once, dont know of any 
grown here below,  is it worth pursuing?  thanks again, minnesota del

>From: Bernie Nikolai <Nikolai@v-wave.com>
>Reply-To: nafex@egroups.com
>To: nafex@egroups.com
>Subject: Re: [nafex] Apple Rootstocks for Extreme Cold
>Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:02:45 -0700 (MST)
>Hi Del,
>Topworking gives a more tender apple cultivar about 5 to 10F more hardiness
>as the site of the most serious winter damage is often on the trunk just
>above the snow line as well as the first few inches of a branch where it
>comes out of the trunk.  Topworking insures you have a very hardy variety 
>these locations on the tree.  It is way, way too much trouble to make an
>orchard this way however.  I just use it for a very few "pet" trees in my
>backyard as it is very time consuming to do.  My topworked McIntosh,
>Summerred, etc are fine to this day, but the tender ones, Ginger Gold,
>Jonagold, etc. did die after a few days of -40F three years back, even
>though they were topworked.  Topworking helps, but it isn't a cure-all for
>really cold weather.  You can graft directly on the crab rootstock's
>branches if you wish and the result should be the same.  I just happened to
>be using hardy trees purchased at a local nursery, so I grafted on the
>existing branches.
>Bud 490 seems hardy for me, but it is nowhere near as hardy as Ranetka or
>Siberian Crab. No snow and 40 below, those two will mainly survive.  Bud 
>will not, nor will Antonovka.  Prunifolia is a question mark at -40 with no
>snow.  The bottom line is in a severe winter climate, why worry about
>whether you will get enough snow to insulate the roots?  I have the bulk of
>my test orchard of 200 trees on Siberian and Ranetka just for that reason.
>-30C tonight and almost no snow on the ground as I write, so I'm glad for
>the hardiness of the bulk of my rootstock.  I unfortunately could not get 
>dormant Bud 490 scions to root, despite dozens of attempts over 2 or 3
>years, so I've given up.
>At 04:59 AM 12/11/00 -0000, you wrote:
> >	Bernie, your timing is impeccable...i just today re-located that 
> >and extensive article you wrote in nafex fall of '94..."Increasing apple
> >cultivar hardiness to minus 40F"      when i can figure how to copy from 
> >new scanner onto this site i would like to copy paragraphs and go over 
> >current thoughts.....but a few
> >?'s for now ..you mentioned a new rootstock Bud 490 needed trial research 
> >have you any opinions today on it?     and on it's ability to root 
> >scions?              your comments then regarding baccata and renetka
> >parallel your comments today, what im eager to learn about is the idea of
> >topworking cultivars. in the article it sounds as though you grafted a
> >rescue, dolgo etc.
> >onto siberian crab and then topwork the dolgo.  but it sounded like with
> >renetka it was both the frame tree and the rootstock.  how has this
> >topworking worked out since then?   was it the winter of 97/98 when the
> >botttom fell out?  we had minus 55-60 here, finished off most of the few
> >orchards around,  how did yours fare ?         i don"t understand the
> >principle of using a frame tree different from the rootstock.    im
> >wondering if there is an advantage for me to add a frame of dolgo (at 
> >level ?) onto my malus prunifolia(plum leaf crab) and then top work my 40
> >cultivars on to that?    eager to learn.
> >   twas a balmy minus 27F (-31C) this morn and our resident great grey 
> >was 100 feet out our window hunting our prolific voles from the 4' high 
> >stakes.   bless his beautiful big-eyed soul
> >                        thanks in advance,minnesota del, 2b
> >>From: Bernie Nikolai <Nikolai@v-wave.com>
> >>Reply-To: nafex@egroups.com
> >>To: nafex@egroups.com
> >>Subject: [nafex] Apple Rootstocks for Extreme Cold
> >>Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2000 20:37:42 -0700 (MST)
> >>
> >>Nafex member Clair Lammers in Fairbanks, Alaska has an apple orchard of
> >>several hundred apple trees (and some pear, plum, apricot).  He has
> >>experimented with many apple rootstocks, and his real world experiences 
> >>a
> >>test winter back a couple of years ago is of significant value to
> >>orchardists in zones 3 and colder.  He experienced a week or more of 
> >>and a bit colder, but with only an inch of snow to no snow, depending on
> >>where the wind piled it in his orchard.
> >>
> >>All his "hardy" rootstock, ie 100% of the trees on Antonovka died.
> >>About 99% of the trees on Siberian crab survived, and about 95% plus of 
> >>trees on Ranetka (apparently Dolgo crab x Siberian Crab) also survived.
> >>
> >>Ranetka seems to make a tree grow faster in cold climates.  From my 
> >>a two year old tree on Ranetka is as large as a 3 year old tree on 
> >>Crab.  Ranetka seems also to be compatible with more varieties than
> >>Siberian
> >>Crab. Lawyer Nurseries in Montana is the only source of this rootstock 
> >>come across.
> >>
> >>While I'm testing many rootstocks, presently we only have about one inch 
> >>snow on the ground, and the temperature this morning was -24C.  I'm glad
> >>the
> >>majority of my rootstocks are Ranetka and Siberian in my orchard, as it
> >>eliminates a lot of worry.  I have good confidence in these two 
> >>down to -40C and zero snowcover.
> >>
> >>Bernie Nikolai
> >>Edmonton, Alberta zone 3/2
> >>
> >
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