Evan;
Thank you for your informative post.
I read through the first study -the Nordic one - and for me its
inconclusive. When measured by the parameters that are normally in use by
industry, the K experiments that were conventional appear to be superior,
while there were parameters (such as quality of protein and storage) that
favoured the organic treatments and the biodynamic treatments. Anyway this
is my understanding at first glance - it will take me some time to actually
study the study and I don't really have that time available. The K
experiments were not actually designed to test the various approaches one
against the other.
To draw conclusions about the statistical significance of the results would
require someone with more statistical knowledge than myself.
I thank you though for your reply to my post.
I must agree with you about the viticulture farmers. They spend an
inordinate amount of time and expense in getting their products acceptable
for the market. I tend myself to favour organic grapes rather than expert
quality as they tend to taste better and don't give me a headache. I always
thought it was the sulphur that gave me the headache, but once I found out
about the sprays, I realised it could be the residues of any of the
treatments.
The earth is starting to breathe out in my neck of the woods. It's a nice
time of year here.
Stephen Steyn
From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com] On
Behalf Of evanfolds
Sent: 10 October 2011 04:39
To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewing Question
Stephen, have you ever buried a cow horn and/or utilized what is created
within it on your garden or farm? You should try it.
The horn is actually buried using cow manure to create BD500 and quartz to
make BD501. The plants and herbs (BD502-508) are created using other means.
BD500 is buried during the winter months when the Earth is breathing in, and
BD501 is buried during the summer months when the Earth is breathing out. If
you dig around there is long term research that confirms the benefits of
this approach. Here's one. It's interesting to note the data on storage
losses, which is an indirect association of nutrient density:
http://www.jdb.se/sbfi/publ/boston/boston7.html
Here's another:
http://extension.oregonstate.edu/sorec/sites/default/files/comparison.pdf
Not to mention all the vineyards that use these methods. There is no group
of farmers that pay closer attention to their crops than in viticulture. To
me, this is a good mainstream indication that it works.
I've seen some pretty amazing results in personal gardens as well. The
direct benefits really depend on the relative deficiencies in the garden. It
seems to fill in the blanks. We call this approach BioEnergetic farming.
Healthy soil is physically, minerally, biologically, and energetically
balanced, like four legs of a chair. If one is left out it cannot stand.
"Organics", while better than conventional, is only the materialsitic end of
natural farming. BioEnergetics addresses all four components.
Evan
www.VortexBrewer.com/microbe
--- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
"Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_...> wrote:
>
> Hi Tim;
>
> What I was asking about was those things not easily researched, but
claimed
> nevertheless by people selling the idea.
>
> Like Steiner's concepts, like putting a concoction of weeds in a cows horn
> and burying it on a full moon evening in a manure pile, muttering strange
> words and then diluting it 6000 times and still be left with a
concentrate.
>
> You know what I mean?
>
> The vortex is mean to imbue the water with special properties which
science
> cannot measure, yet they confer certain properties on the plants when
> watered.
>
> SS
>
>
>
>
>
> From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ]
On
> Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> Sent: 08 October 2011 18:26
> To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewing Question
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey Stephen;
>
> That is why the air pump needs to be matched with the volume of water and
> pipe diameter.
>
> I'm not exactly sure what you are asking concerning vortexes. From my
> standpoint a vortex is great for creating a thorough mix with no dead
zones.
> There may be some other unknown aspects to what it does to water structure
> but that is not something I know anything about and not something easily
> researched (AFAIK).
>
> Tim
>
> --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> "Stephen Steyn" <ssteyn_at_> wrote:
> >
> > Tim;
> >
> > Maybe, depending on the characteristics of the pump, one need not have
the
> > diffuser at the bottom of the riser, but partway up the riser. My reason
> for
> > adding this is that some pumps quickly run out of volume as the
> backpressure
> > increases - until eventually all you are creating is heat with minimal
> flow.
> >
> > Tim, I still worry about the advantages of the Vortex route. What are
your
> > gut feelings or findings in this regard?
> >
> > SS
> >
> >
> >
> > From: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ]
> On
> > Behalf Of Tim Wilson
> > Sent: 08 October 2011 03:05
> > To: compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [compost_tea] Re: Vortex Brewing Question
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm replying to my own post to keep the information under the correct
> > heading. I wish to point out that in Evan's post under wood chunks in
> > compost he addressed what I said concerning vortexes but seemed to have
> > missed the point I made stating that a vortex can be created in more
> simple
> > fashion using only one riser and return pipe. The water is still allowed
> to
> > take the vortex path which it yearns to and this can be adjusted as to
> > direction and intensity by simply twisting the elbows on the PVC pipe.
> >
> > There may be a possibility even probability that a vortex increases the
> > dissolved oxygen (DO2) in water negligibly, however in this situation,
> > scientifically, applying physics, the DO2 is increased via the use of
air
> > lift(s). Actually up to 10 times.
> >
> > Concerning the use of diffusers, it has been measured by some science
guys
> > and by me that by using a diffuser at the base of the airlift riser pipe
> one
> > can considerably multiply the DO2, over using no diffusers at all. I
have
> > posted a couple of papers outlining some studies on airlifts in the
files
> > section. One details some of the math employed, the other is not great
but
> > does mention the diffuser issue. They will probably both make your eyes
> > glaze over but this is part of what I went through determining my air
lift
> > diffusion chamber.
> >
> > I have posted some photos of efforts of some of my students to build
> simple,
> > relatively inexpensive airlift [one is super super cheap $10] and vortex
> > brewers using only one airlift and riser/return pipe. As you can see
there
> > is an acceptable vortex created. They have reported outstanding results
to
> > me with their gardens but I'm not one to count on testimonials. Who
knows
> > what they are comparing it to?
> >
> > Just so you know, with my advice, they have all switched the air input
to
> > the horizontal instead of under the riser pipe.
> >
> > One needs to fiddle [or do the math] to get the correct diameter pipe
for
> > the pump. EG. I just ran some trials using 3/4 inch, 1 inch and 1.25
inch
> > pipe with the same pump. The 1 inch and 1.25 inch created an identical
> flow
> > but the turbulence was greater with 1 inch and the flow was greatly
> reduced
> > with the 3/4 inch. Go figure.
> >
> > Salutations,
> > Tim
> > Get a duck
> >
> > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> > "Tim Wilson" <thegoodjob_at_> wrote:
> > >
> > > You can generally follow the instructions to building a vortex brewer
> but
> > save yourself a lot of extra effort by using only one riser pipe. Not
only
> > is the vortex pholosophy subjectively questionable but you can obtain a
> > pretty good vortex with one pipe anyway. Do some research a think about
> it.
> > >
http://www.microbeorganics.com/#So_You_Wanna_Build_A_Compost_Tea_Brewer
> > > BTW, sure you can dump the compost right into the water, so long as it
> > does not have big chunks.
> > >
> > > Salutations,
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In compost_tea_at_yahoogroups.com
<mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> <mailto:compost_tea%40yahoogroups.com>
> > , "somydi" <somydi_at_> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I am new to brewing and in my research on making a 5 gallon tea
> brewer,
> > I am thinking of making a vortex type. The only information I am not
sure
> > about is if I should contain the compost in a bag or let it cycle
through
> > the brewer. If I let it cycle then I will need to think about pipe
sizing?
> > Having read so much on the benefits of compost tea, I am looking forward
> to
> > making my own so any helpful ideas will be welcomed.
> > > > -John
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
Received on Mon Oct 10 2011 - 12:30:50 EDT