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Re: The Limits To Growth



On Thu, 12 Dec 1996 01:38:35 EDT, Toby Reiter <str4552@OBERLIN.EDU>
wrote:

>After reading some of your posts, I'm beginning to become a little 
>scared.  There is no way you can sat that humans can operate an ecosystem 
>better than nature--it's just not true. Water quality in the U.S. 
>overall is much worse than before European colonization. There are much 
>fewer forests in the U.S. than there were before, and the forests that do 
>exist are almost entirely second or even third growth, and as a result 
>have lower biomass to land ratios, and are much weaker in terms of 
>diversity and efficiency of the system.

So?  Even if this were true, which it probably isn't, what's so great
about forests as opposed to say rose bushes or carefully cultivated
third growth marijuana?

>I'm wondering where you're coming from. What is your particular 
>background, and what is your purpose? 

Is this relevant to the question of whether or not the advanced
societies are doing a generally good job of cleaning up the messes
left earlier?

>                    On my end I am a college freshman 
>in an introductory environmental studies course. I know my knowledge is 
>limited, but from what I have read I can see that most of what the 
>environmental movement would have implemented in the U.S. and around the 
>world would have better economic as well as environmental ramifications 
>for humans and all other members of the biosphere. 

Some would, some wouldn't.  In particular the blind faith of many in
the environmental movement in the enforcement of regulation at any
cost could have truly disastrous consequences.  Fortunately this
tendency is in retreat most places.

>                                                                                                       My purpose is to try 
>and create a society in which social connections are improved, emphasis 
>is placed on moral and ethical improvements are put above economic ones, 
>and humans live a sustainable equilibrium within nature.
 
Fine.  I wish you well.  I do, however, point out to you that
asserting that attractive-sounding set of conflicting purposes does
not do a great deal toward clarifying or achieving them.  

In particular I wonder if you can show me an example, anywhere,
anytime, of anyone whose "emphasis is placed on moral and ethical
improvements {be/are} put above economic ones" who achieved any of
either. The very beginning of moral and ethical improvement is usually
to wish health, wealth and long life upon others.  This is
conspicuously true of people who live lives of voluntary poverty,
though the tendency is less marked among wealthy American college
students.
 
                                                  -dlj.



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