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Re: P-SF logic - sorry!

On Fri, 28 Jan 2000, Will Cook wrote:

> On 28 Jan 00, at 9:58, Joshua Stuart Rose wrote:
> > If you report your list to the ABA for 
> > publication, then we cannot count this bird as Pacific-Slope unless the 
> > state committee accepts it as such. That's the rules of the game.
> I couldn't find any mention in the ABA listing rules about your IDs needing 
> to by approved of by state records committee.  All the species you report 
> need to be currently accepted by the ABA Checklist Committee for the ABA 
> area.  You can read the rules and interpretations at: 
> http://www.americanbirding.org/reslistru2.htm

You know, I am looking at my copy of the ABA 1998 Big Day and List 
Report, which in the back has Robert Pyle, Chairman of the ABA listing 
rules committee, giving his interpretation of the listing rules. And Will 
is right, there is absolutely nothing in there about whether the state 
committee accepts or rejects the record. Sorry I gave everyone the wrong 
idea there! Gee, I need to go add a few species to my Michigan state 

I noticed a couple of other interesting things in the listing rules. 
Someone already brought up that the bird only "counts" if you identify it 
yourself: you must hear the flycatcher vocalize, and recognize its 
vocalization as definitely not Cordilleran, in order to count it as 
Pacific-Slope rather than Western, no matter how many other people have 
already heard its call and identified it. However, another thing which 
has not been mentioned here before is that "identification is not valid 
if the characteristics are seen or heard only while the bird is captive 
or after it is collected." Which means that any hummingbird which is 
captured and identified as, say, Black-chinned or Allen's in the hand, 
still is not "countable" as such for ABA lists unless you see some 
character in the field which identifies the bird conclusively. It sounds 
like some folks have observed such field marks on the Hampstead 
Black-chin, but in the case of Allen's this may be impossible with any 
bird other than an adult male, very few of which stray eastward. I wonder 
how many folks out there have these hummingbird species on eastern state 
lists based only on a bander's say-so...

Oh, well. I hope the roads clear up fast, I want to discuss actual birds 
rather than listing rules for a while!



Joshua S. Rose
Duke University
Department of Zoology