srImathE rAmanujAya namah dear bhAgavathAs, It is really an interesting debate that is going on re: "sAththivika ahankAram". Though, smt. sumithra varadarAjan's and others' posts seem convincing, it somehow does not seem right that something termed as 'sAththvika ahankAram" can be part of our sampradAyam. where embAr said "illai enakku edhir, illai enakku edhir", adiyEn has always understood that statement to be the ultimate statement in praising Ramanuja, rather than svami embAr being proud somehow of himself. My understanding is that "As the beautiful vadivazhagu of emperumAnAr is in my mind, there is no comparison to me" (or there are no virOdhis for me). Please note that embAr does not say "Since I have the beautiful vadivazhagu of emperumAnAr in my mind!"; it is clear that the vadivazhagu of emperumAnAr is present in embAr's mind only because of emperumAnAr's grace. So, I have difficulty attributing any "ahankAram" - good, or bad to this statement. Similarly, for "nin thanakkum kuRippaakil kaRkalaam kaviyin poruL thaanE", I have always taken it to mean that AzhvAr wonders at emperumAn's grace in which He has provided AzhvAr with the the most perfect knowledge. Especially, in the previous pAsurams, AzhvAr marvels that he saw emperumAn (kaNdu koNdEnE) with all kinds of attributes in thiru-k-kaNNamangai. In the last pAsuram he starts with "kaNNamangaiyuL kaNdu koNdEn enRu kaadhalaal kalikanRi uRai seidha".. Does this not mean that thirumangai AzhvAr is saying that those who recite these pAsurams will go to mEl ulagaNgaL not because kaliyan said so, but because kaliyan was blessed by perumAL such that he saw perumAL at thiru-k-kaNNamangai, and he described that?. Doesn't this mean that the grace that perumAL showered on kaliyan at thiru-k-kaNNa mangai was so great and abundant, and the resulting knowledge is so pure that kaliyan marvels at His grace - "Oh Lord, the truth be said, if You desired, even You can learn the meanings of these words from me"? If we say that AzhvAr/AchArya had "sAththivika ahankAram", does this not mean that for that moment when they composed/sang the line which we say denotes sAththivika ahankAra, they were thinking of themselves? Can our AchAryAs/AzhvArs EVER think of themselves in this manner? Did they not completely immerse themselves in our Lord, and hence, is not everything they say ONLY praising/marvelling about our Lord? (except in cases where they are in the mode of "koovi koLLum kaaalam innum kuRugaadho? - even here, they cannot bear the separation) AzhvAr emperumAnAr jIyar thiruvadigaLE SaraNam. adiyEn madhurakavi dAsan, varadhan ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/.itolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> azhwAr emberumAnAr jeeyAr thiruvadigalE saranam Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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