[B-Greek] PROS in Heb 1:7-8 ( was Semantic Range of Prepositions
Bryant J. Williams III
bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Wed Mar 24 01:54:16 EDT 2010
Dear Elizabeth,
I would check out Commentary on the New Testament Use of the Old Testament,
edited by C. K. Beale and D. A. Carson, "Hebrews," by George H. Guthrie, pp.
933-939.
En Xristwi,
Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: "greek B-Greek" <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, March 22, 2010 6:57 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] PROS in Heb 1:7-8 ( was Semantic Range of Prepositions
>
> On Mar 22, 2010, at 1:30 PM, Yancy Smith wrote:
>
> > Elizabeth EGRAYE:
> > Prepositions are ambiguous. Take a look at PROS in:
> >
> > Heb. 1:7 καὶ πρὸς μὲν τοὺς ἀγγέλους λέγει· ὁ ποιῶν τοὺς ἀγγέλους αὐτοῦ
πνεύματα καὶ τοὺς λειτουργοὺς αὐτοῦ πυρὸς φλόγα, 8 πρὸς δὲ τὸν υἱόν· ὁ θρόνος
σου ὁ θεὸς εἰς τὸν αἰῶνα τοῦ αἰῶνος, καὶ ἡ ῥάβδος τῆς εὐθύτητος ῥάβδος τῆς
βασιλείας σου.
> >
> > Heb. 1:7 KAI PROS MEN TOUS AGGELOUS LEGEI· hO POIWN TOUS AGGELOUS AUTOU
PNEUMATA KAI TOUS LEITOURGOUS AUTOU PUROS FLOGA, 8 PROS DE TON hUION· hO QRONOS
SOU hO QEOS EIS TON AIWNA TOU AIWNOS, KAI hH hRABDOS THS EUQUTHTOS hRABDOS THS
BASILEIAS SOU.
> >
> > Does the first PROS mark the addressees of LEGEI "to" or the subjectmatter
of LEGEI "concerning"?
> >
> > [Yancy Smith]
> > A great example, and translations usually waffle from v. 7 to v. 8. The UBS
Translator's Handbook on Hebrews says, "The word translated About [PROS] in
verses 7 and 8 more commonly means “To.” About fits the context better in verse
7, where God is not speaking to the angels, but “To” is more suitable here in
verse 8, because God is speaking to the Son."
> > But here, the ambiguity of the preposition arises from the semantics of the
verb LEGEI, as Elizabeth suggests. The same verb is used (with the an ambiguous
subject, God-Scripture, as the implied speaker? Or no direct "speaker" at all?)
in v. 5, 6, 7, 13. LEGEI has a range of meanings that also set different
conceptual or assumptive frames. For example, when LEGEI means "means" or LEGEI
PROS means "refers to" (as it might here) the semantics of the verb would
determine the frame, I suppose.
>
>
> Yancy,
>
> Another question, perhaps related to how we read the first PROS, is how to
read the quote from Psalm 104:4 (103:4 LXX). I found reading C.Koester (Hebrews
AB), P.Ellingworth, B.F.Westcott, FF.Bruce, Moffat (ICC) directly contradictory
statements about Hebrews form, the MT Ps 104:4 and the LXX 103:4. I assume all
these authors can read Greek and Hebrew.
>
> Not a single one of them bothered to raise the question how verse four would
fit in a psalm which is very obviously with a view to some sort of a storm
theophany. Given that background I think we should probably read the LXX
citation they way it is translated by Albert Pietersma. It makes a lot more
sense to talk about wind and fire being messengers, given the storm "frame".
>
> On the author of Hebrews didn't probably give much attention to the original
setting of the citations.
>
>
> Elizabeth Kline
>
>
>
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.3/696 - Release Date: 02/21/2007 3:19
PM
More information about the B-Greek
mailing list