[B-Greek] 2 Peter 1:20 and context
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Thu May 27 05:48:12 EDT 2010
One would be hard pressed to find any examples at all of "releasing a prophecy"—with EPILUSIS—I should think, but I am open to new evidence. Can you think of any, Iver?
Yancy Smith, PhD
yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net
Y.W.Smith at tcu.edu
yancy at wbtc.com
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817-361-7565
On May 27, 2010, at 12:34 AM, Iver Larsen wrote:
> Hi, Yancy,
>
> It seems to be our habit to disagree.
>
> What I termed as the KJV tradition, is not limited to that translation, since it goes all the way back to the (mis)translation done by Vulgate, and I think this is what has influenced traditional Greek dictionaries. I have no qualms about disagreeing with the interpretations done by LSJ and BDAG, as long as the meaning I - and others - propose is solidly within the semantic range of the word in question.
>
> I am very surprised that you say:
>
> "The idea of "releasing a prophecy" sounds more like a feature of modern Pentecostal-charismatic theology than a serious, historically supported meaning of ἐπίλυσις EPILUSIS. No criticism here is intended of Pentecostal-charismatics. I am one. I am inclined to accept L-S-J's classification of ἐπίλυσις as "explanation," since that is the connotation one expects with "prophecy.""
>
> If you study the concept of prophecy in the Bible and the burden it is for a prophet to receive a message and whether or when to release it, you will see that "releasing a prophecy" is very much to the point, while explanation does not connotate with what a prophet does. That is what Rabbis and theologians try to do. What you call "historically supported meaning" is IMO the meaning supported by people who are not familiar with prophecy. But we are moving too far into theology now because of your stated theological presuppositions - which of course is a crucial part of "context".
>
> Iver Larsen
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yancy Smith" <yancywsmith at sbcglobal.net>
> To: "'B-Greek'" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: 26. maj 2010 20:31
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 2 Peter 1:20 and context
>
>
>> I wouldn't be so quick to set aside the traditional interpretation suggested in BDAG here.
>>
>> George said:
>>
>> While I would not disagree with your analysis that v 21 gives the explanation for v 20, I think you are incorrect to state that the best procedure is to look at v 21 first. It is always best to take the passage as it is presented. Besides, how do you justify taking v 21 first when v 20 specifically states τοῦτο πρῶτον γινώσκοντες TOUTO PRWTON GINWSKONTES ? The statement precedes the explanation (or elaboration) of the statement. My guess is that the cause of this role reversal lies in a desire to conform to the target language in Englishing it.
>>
>> Iver Larsen said:
>>
>> This verse has been discussed before, but it may be worth revisiting it.
>> While I agree with the importance of context, I think we also should prioritize
>> context so that the immediate context carries most weight. In the case of v. 20,
>> v. 21 gives the explanation of anything that might be unclear in v. 20, and this
>> is marked by the explanatory discourse particle GAR.
>>
>> 20 τοῦτο πρῶτον γινώσκοντες ὅτι πᾶσα προφητεία γραφῆς ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως οὐ
>> γίνεται· 21 οὐ γὰρ θελήματι ἀνθρώπου ἠνέχθη προφητεία ποτέ, ἀλλὰ ὑπὸ πνεύματος
>> ἁγίου φερόμενοι ἐλάλησαν ἀπὸ θεοῦ ἄνθρωποι.
>> 20 TOUTO PRWTON GINWSKONTES hOTI PASA PROFHTEIA GRAFHS IDIAS EPILUSEWS OU
>> GINETAI
>> 21 OU GAR QELHMATI ANQRWPOU HNECQH PROFHTEIA POTE, ALLA hUPO PNEUMATOS hAGIOU
>> FEROMENOI ELALHSAN APO QEOU ANQRWPOI.
>>
>> Because of the GAR, the best procedure is to look at v. 21 first. The first
>> clause is framed as a negative: Never is a prophecy brought forth (given,
>> spoken, written) by a person's (own) will. The second gives the positive side:
>> People/prophets speak words from God as they are being carried along (inspired)
>> by the Holy Spirit.
>>
>> So, if we look at v. 20, IDIAS most likely refers to the person/prophet at any
>> unspecified time, since these are the people that occur in v. 21.
>> The GINETAI refers to a prophecy "happening" or "coming into being" in parallel
>> to FERW and LALEW.
>> Because of these parallels, EPILUSIS must have its basic meaning of "releasing",
>> i.e. the prophet releases (speaks out or writes) the prophetic words he or she
>> has received from God through the Holy Spirit.
>>
>> In terms of translations, NET did fairly well and NLT is not too bad, but NIV
>> and several others seem to be stuck in the old KJV tradition (which goes further
>> back to Wycliffe and probably to the Vulgate.)
>>
>> Yancy: This is not simply a matter of being stuck in the old KJV tradition!
>> First, because the range of meaning, suggested in Liddell-Scott, while including "release" would be quite odd with prophecy. The idea of "releasing a prophecy" sounds more like a feature of modern Pentecostal-charismatic theology than a serious, historically supported meaning of ἐπίλυσις EPILUSIS. No criticism here is intended of Pentecostal-charismatics. I am one. I am inclined to accept L-S-J's classification of ἐπίλυσις as "explanation," since that is the connotation one expects with "prophecy." A perusal of the instances of EPILUSIS in the Greek corpus of literature will confirm this thought.
>> L-S-J say:
>> ἐπί-λῠσις, εως, ἡ,
>> release from, ἐ. φόβων δίδου A.Th.134 (lyr.): abs., exemption from banishment, SIG306.51 (Arc., iv B.C.).
>> . solution, σοφισμάτων S.E.P.2.246; explanation, 2 Ep.Pet.1.20, Vett. Val.172.3 (pl.), Hld.1.18, 4.9, Iamb.Protr.21 (pl.).
>> . discharge, of a debt, δοῦναί τισιν ἐ. PEleph.27.23 (iii B.C.), cf. PGrenf.2.26.27 (ii B.C.).
>> . spell, PMag.Leid.W.25.11, al.
>> . Medic., change of dressing, Sor.1.28(pl.), Gal.18(2).838(pl.), Paul.Aeg.4.48.
>>
>> So, while BDAG give a "basic meaning" of 'a setting free from something,' the meaning they prefer is clearly stated:
>>
>> ἐπίλυσις, εως, ἡ (Aeschyl. et al. w. var. mngs.; ins, pap) ‘a setting free from someth.’, then the act or process of explaining, explanation, interpretation (so Sext. Emp., Pyrrh. 2, 246; Vett. Val. 221, 9; 330, 10; Heliod. 1, 18, 2 ὀνειράτων ἐπίλυσις; Gen 40:8 Aq.; Philo, Vi. Cont. 75, ln. 8 v.l.; Clem. Alex., Paed. 2, 1, 14) πᾶσα προφητεία ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως οὐ γίνεται 2 Pt 1:20 (γίνομαι 9c and ἴδιος 6.—Ps.-Callisth. 2, 1, 5 Stasagoras complains about the unfavorable interpretation of an omen by a prophet in these words: σὺ σεαυτῇ ἐπέλυσας τὸ σημεῖον=you gave the omen your own interpretation.—S. also WArndt, CTM 7, ’36, 685–91). Of the interpretation of a parable (cp. 4 Esdr 12:10) Hs 5, 5, 1; 5, 6, 8; 5, 7, 1; 8, 11, 1; 9, 13, 9; 9, 16, 7.—DELG s.v. λύω. M-M. TW.
>>
>> Thus,the meaning of γίνομαι 9c in BDAG is appropriate:
>>
>> ⑨ to be closely related to someone or someth., belong to
>> ⓓ Here perh. belongs ἰδίας ἐπιλύσεως οὐ γίνεται it is not a matter of private interpretation 2 Pt 1:20.
>>
>> In ἰδία ἐπίλυσις 2 Pt 1:20 one’s own private interpretation is contrasted with the meaning intended by the author himself or with the interpretation of another person who is authorized or competent (s. ἐπίλυσις and WWeeda, NThSt 2, 1919, 129–35)
>>
>> Yancy
>>
>>
>>
>>
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