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Ramanuja List Archive: Message 00078 Jan 2006

 
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Namaste!!
 
Thanks for the article on Iskon. BG says all the paths from charvaka to bhakti exposed by none other than him lead to him. But only the fruit varies.
 
As if anyone says Radha, pl explain to them radha or godha or sita are not humanly born.
 
Again if they talk Gopi's tell them they were there with their own krsna of their mind.
Even swami desikan describes this in GOPALA VIMSATHI.
 
The problem is that men in general have degraded and cannot even have a clean habit and charecter and routine. So everybody thinks becoming brahmins will solve all this.
 
Dasan/raghavan

sgk <shamini.gayatri@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
sri rama jayam
srimathe ramanujaya namaha

namaskaram to all.
i think this is my first mail in this forum after being a member for
more than 3 months.i have been following most of the discussion
sincerely and i hav also learned alot.

i thought of adding few words to this subject about ISKCON.its true
that there are many things going on which is against our sampradaya
and if we vaisnavites tend to correct,then we are labelled as cast
conscious etc etc.expecially in the place that im born and brought up
(malaysia)this beleive is almost in every corner of the country.im
proud that it is following bhagavatham and bhagavad gita in close
but certain things are very strange.i beleive probably its to suit
western vaishnavites but then i think certain things are causing
confusion and even i would say great dosham.

il give few examples from what i know besides what has been pin
pointed.firstly women cahnting gayatri japam has been dealt in
detail and we know the reason why it should not be said why
women.adiyen being a pattar brahmin,do not tell in spite of knowing
in and out of it but then some of my college friends are having
cassetes and cd's out of it and in western music pattern which is
composed by ISCKON(not sure which center). the gayatri mantra told
with english slang is jus unexplanabile...it sounds like a mixture
of many things loosing its originality.

beside this,girls or women with menses can take part in all pooja in
the temple.the explanation given are sometimes unbeleivable,(radha
with sri krishna is always with him in spite of she being women
having all hormone changes.some even have agrued with me that once
in isckon,all women are gopikas',so they will always be with god.
when we say part of explanation,we are claimed to be orthodox,etc
etc.

the concept in ISCkon is noble and need to be saluted but at the
smae time if these corrections are done it will be perfect for all
the followers.they should not confuse vaishnavism and brahminism.
brahmanan is by birth and by not by any initiation.one can argue
that lifestyle is also a parameter,agreed.taking into that in
consideration,i believe that is more suitable for any man who si
leading a vedic life.

what is the hunger into getting initiated being a brahmin when god
is not looking at any of these when it comes getting his blessings.
he accepts everyone. basically people should love themself,live and
improve lifestyle towards vedic life than trying to change identity.
this mails not meant to hurt any party but its jus to make few
comments and suggestion on how to be a perfect society.
may god bless all the noble work of all people towards sri vaishnavam

adiyen,
shamini gayatri krishnan

--- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan@xxxx> wrote:
>
> Swamin,
>   
>   These are some of thughts collected from different kalakshepams.
>   
>   1. Iskon, initiates every one into vaishnavism, though a
different form. They do this as initiation to vaishnavism. I dont
think they make evrybody brahmins. Again though this we can say is a
western concept, is actually a process started by our own
emperumanar even.
>   
>   Only difference is the initiation of women which is purely a
retrogade step and they will learn by themselves.
>   
>   2. Even bagwan says " Sarva dharman parityajya....." Swami
Desikan says "Anyatha saranam nasti ....." . As longas any sould
surrenders to him and him alone we have to welcome that. Mukur swami
use to tell 'My lord carries the padam of the beloved on his head".
This we have to celebrate the lord in them as he would like to
handle them solely and follow them.
>   
>   3. As for as the Thiruman and the Gopi goes, before thiruman
during the times of ram and Krsna they wore only sandal on their
heads. This was taught to me by one SESHADRI swami during my pratmic
class.
>   
>   4. Yes we have to save our culture as it explains the travails
of the sould from the Jada jivan to this level. This way of living
and culture needs to be preserved by explaining the significance of
each of our rituals as that alsone can make our sampradayam sustain.
>   
>   PLS DO CORRECT IF I AM WRONG PARTLY OR FULLY.
>   
>   DASAN/raghavan
>
> vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan@xxxx> wrote:
>     
>   SrI:
>   Dear Sri Mohan Swamin,
>                                       Whilst your points are
indeed effective, I would like to ramble a couple of my thoughts, as
somebody who had been deeply attached to ISKCON in the past:
>   
>   1) When it is accepted that becoming a Vaishnava is paramount
and not the varna-affiliation, I am not able to reconcile with the
fact that ISKCON gives "brahmana initiation" to all and sundry
(including Women!!!) which has no prior vedic pramanas, even in our
Sampradayam, our AchAryAs never tampered with the varna system,
granted they made it a strong point that being a Srivaishnava is
more important. Brahmana initiation for ladies and ladies chanting
Gayathri in ISKCON - I don't know if it is western influence, or
implicitly vEdic. I would love to be corrected on this regard.
>   
>   2) Worse, many of our "Iyengars" take "initiation" from western-
born SwAmis and Goswamis of ISKCON - thus symbolically relegating
all their responsibilities to our Ramanuja Matham, sporting the Gopi
Chandanam which is different from Sri Vaishnava sampradayam. Worse,
I know of so-called SrivaishnavAs who sport fantastic thirumaN
during socio-religious occasions but immediately revert to the Gopi-
Chandanam at home - which reflects the pitiable condition of our
sampradayam. Also, I can't understand the logic beyond young
unmarried males/females from Srivaishnava families being "initiated"
in ISKCON, thus accepting Gaudiya Sampradayam. I once asked a very
nice ISKCON sannyasi about the same - if they respect Srivaishnavism
so much, why should they initiate disciples from SV, instead of just
asking them to just follow the Srivaishnava Matham? His answer was,
disciples even from Srivaishnava families unconditionally surrender
to Him explaining their lack of interest in SV, he initiates
>  them only then. I couldn't doubt Him. 
>   
>   3) Granted, there are many positively influential points in
ISKCON that we learn from - food-style, commitment, etc.
Unfortunately we are losing many of our brethen - young and old
alike to a different sampradayam with philosophies and practices
orthogonal to ours. 
>   
>   Dasan,
>   Kidambi Soundararajan. 
>
>  
>
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> http://www.vedics.net
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