Dear members, I would like to clear up a couple of points that I made in my original mail on this subject, and to clarify my intention for posting it. My purpose was to highlight the differences in approach of the two sampradaayams in giving gaayatri initiation - prompted by Sriman Pritesh's insight that gaayatri initiation is only given through 'a bona fide guru'. I was not trying to read in any Vaishnava significance to the Gaayatri mantra, merely pointing out the different approach that two different Vaishnava sampradaayas have on it (we could have replaced 'Shaiva' or 'Smaarta' with 'Vaishnava' there). As a side comment, I noted that those who are given gaayatri initiation in the Gaudiya tradition seem to treat it a lot more seriously than many of our own 'birth brahmins'/'Iyengars'. In relation to this I noticed there were a number of points made about the Gaudiya sampradaaya's use of Gaayatri: 'I am not sure how or why the Gayatri mantra found its way into ISKCON' - Sriman Mohan Sagar, 'ISKCON gives "brahmana initiation" to all and sundry' - Sriman Kidambi Soundararajan, 'I dont think they make evrybody brahmins...Only difference is the initiation of women which is purely a retrogade step and they will learn by themselves' - Sriman Vijaya Raghavan Regarding all these, I understand (and share) the deep attachment we all will have to Sri Sampradaayam. But some of the above statements could be taken as being unfairly harsh to the Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaayam. Granted, I have often found myself disagreeing with some of Gaudiya sampradaayam's views but I have come to respect their stance on these issues. Let me explain why: Sriman Mohan, as to why ISKCON has adopted use of the gaayatri mantra, I am sure anyone who asks them will know that they see themselves as a fully Vaidika sampradaayam. Anyone who has closely observed an ISKCON worship service will notice that their poojaris (often non-Indians, who have been given yagnyopaveetam) do recite vedic mantras during worship including Purusha suukta, Vishnu suukta and others, and if you ask them about their practice you will find that they do in fact perform trikaala sandhyaavandanam. This isn't just my guess, I happen to have discussed these issues in detail a couple of times with a prominent Gaudiya Vaishnava academic in the UK who also performs priestly duties for many Indian Hindu families. Any student of Gaudiya sampradaayam will also know that they don't subscribe to the 'birth' based view of varna prevalent in Sri sampradaayam - hence their giving of yagnyopaveetam to non-birth brahmins. Your observation that the chanting of Vedas is restricted by birth may be the understanding of most Sri Vaishnava acharyas, but I think we should respect the strongly held conviction of the Gaudiyas on this. They too will be able to quote vedic pramaaNam stating that 'individuals displaying the required characterists are eligible for gaayatri'. Any further discussion of this would probably spiral into the caste-by-birth-or-qualities debate which has happened too many times on other lists. My point is that recitation of Gaayatri and Vedas has a very secure, and sampradaayic position in ISCKON which we should respect. Sriman Kidambi Soundararajan, you lament that they give gaayatri initiation to 'all-and-sundry'. I can tell you that the gentleman I mentioned above is probably more strict than any brahmin in my family. He does three times daily gaayatri, doesn't eat non- saattvik food, gets up at Brahma muhuurtam - what percentage of 'birth brahmins' do all of that nowadays? And what's more they are tested severely before being accepted for gaayatri initiation, and it is only a small fraction of people who are actually given yagnyopaveetam, not all devotees as you may have thought. They are definitely not indiscriminate. I think we should be more worried about the fact that a huge percentage of the birth brahmins given 'pooNal' these days just do it as a social function, with no intention of ever performing sandhyaavandanam or chanting gaayatri. We surely all know people who fall into this category - I myself was one once upon a time. Which is greater apachaaram to the Holy Vedas - teaching it to people who might be 'forbidden' but have the enthusiasm to learn it - or teaching it to people, who are 'allowed' to learn it but have no real interest in respecting it? It's a tough question I agree. It is also a two-edged sword, if we accept our birth status, we have to also acknowledge that we can fall from it, according to dharmashaastras. The learned members will know that so many of us will not even qualify for being brahmins any more, despite our birth, due to some transgression of some dharmashaastra rule or another (take a look at Manu Smriti!). Again, discussion of this could descend into the old caste debate, but as far as it's relation to the topic of gaayatri and ISCKON, my point is to note the *colossal* respect they afford to gaayatri. Rest assured that those in ISCKON who do receive gaayatri (whether men or women) do it after a lot of serious thought, introspection and self-discipline - probably much more than the vast majority of Iyengar/Iyer/Smaartha boys these days. So please let us be less judgemental of their sampradaayam which has its own philosophy, history and tradition - regardless of whether we agree with them or not. namO nArAyaNAya aaNDaaL tiruvaDigaLE sharaNam with praNaamams, apologies for any offences sarvAparAdhAn kShamasva Ranjan Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam http://www.vedics.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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