sri rama jayam srimathe ramanujaya namaha namaskaram to all. i think this is my first mail in this forum after being a member for more than 3 months.i have been following most of the discussion sincerely and i hav also learned alot. i thought of adding few words to this subject about ISKCON.its true that there are many things going on which is against our sampradaya and if we vaisnavites tend to correct,then we are labelled as cast conscious etc etc.expecially in the place that im born and brought up (malaysia)this beleive is almost in every corner of the country.im proud that it is following bhagavatham and bhagavad gita in close but certain things are very strange.i beleive probably its to suit western vaishnavites but then i think certain things are causing confusion and even i would say great dosham. il give few examples from what i know besides what has been pin pointed.firstly women cahnting gayatri japam has been dealt in detail and we know the reason why it should not be said why women.adiyen being a pattar brahmin,do not tell in spite of knowing in and out of it but then some of my college friends are having cassetes and cd's out of it and in western music pattern which is composed by ISCKON(not sure which center). the gayatri mantra told with english slang is jus unexplanabile...it sounds like a mixture of many things loosing its originality. beside this,girls or women with menses can take part in all pooja in the temple.the explanation given are sometimes unbeleivable,(radha with sri krishna is always with him in spite of she being women having all hormone changes.some even have agrued with me that once in isckon,all women are gopikas',so they will always be with god. when we say part of explanation,we are claimed to be orthodox,etc etc. the concept in ISCkon is noble and need to be saluted but at the smae time if these corrections are done it will be perfect for all the followers.they should not confuse vaishnavism and brahminism. brahmanan is by birth and by not by any initiation.one can argue that lifestyle is also a parameter,agreed.taking into that in consideration,i believe that is more suitable for any man who si leading a vedic life. what is the hunger into getting initiated being a brahmin when god is not looking at any of these when it comes getting his blessings. he accepts everyone. basically people should love themself,live and improve lifestyle towards vedic life than trying to change identity. this mails not meant to hurt any party but its jus to make few comments and suggestion on how to be a perfect society. may god bless all the noble work of all people towards sri vaishnavam adiyen, shamini gayatri krishnan --- In ramanuja@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Vijaya Raghavan <svrvan@xxxx> wrote: > > Swamin, > > These are some of thughts collected from different kalakshepams. > > 1. Iskon, initiates every one into vaishnavism, though a different form. They do this as initiation to vaishnavism. I dont think they make evrybody brahmins. Again though this we can say is a western concept, is actually a process started by our own emperumanar even. > > Only difference is the initiation of women which is purely a retrogade step and they will learn by themselves. > > 2. Even bagwan says " Sarva dharman parityajya....." Swami Desikan says "Anyatha saranam nasti ....." . As longas any sould surrenders to him and him alone we have to welcome that. Mukur swami use to tell 'My lord carries the padam of the beloved on his head". This we have to celebrate the lord in them as he would like to handle them solely and follow them. > > 3. As for as the Thiruman and the Gopi goes, before thiruman during the times of ram and Krsna they wore only sandal on their heads. This was taught to me by one SESHADRI swami during my pratmic class. > > 4. Yes we have to save our culture as it explains the travails of the sould from the Jada jivan to this level. This way of living and culture needs to be preserved by explaining the significance of each of our rituals as that alsone can make our sampradayam sustain. > > PLS DO CORRECT IF I AM WRONG PARTLY OR FULLY. > > DASAN/raghavan > > vimalkumar ranganathan <panardasan@xxxx> wrote: > > SrI: > Dear Sri Mohan Swamin, > Whilst your points are indeed effective, I would like to ramble a couple of my thoughts, as somebody who had been deeply attached to ISKCON in the past: > > 1) When it is accepted that becoming a Vaishnava is paramount and not the varna-affiliation, I am not able to reconcile with the fact that ISKCON gives "brahmana initiation" to all and sundry (including Women!!!) which has no prior vedic pramanas, even in our Sampradayam, our AchAryAs never tampered with the varna system, granted they made it a strong point that being a Srivaishnava is more important. Brahmana initiation for ladies and ladies chanting Gayathri in ISKCON - I don't know if it is western influence, or implicitly vEdic. I would love to be corrected on this regard. > > 2) Worse, many of our "Iyengars" take "initiation" from western- born SwAmis and Goswamis of ISKCON - thus symbolically relegating all their responsibilities to our Ramanuja Matham, sporting the Gopi Chandanam which is different from Sri Vaishnava sampradayam. Worse, I know of so-called SrivaishnavAs who sport fantastic thirumaN during socio-religious occasions but immediately revert to the Gopi- Chandanam at home - which reflects the pitiable condition of our sampradayam. Also, I can't understand the logic beyond young unmarried males/females from Srivaishnava families being "initiated" in ISKCON, thus accepting Gaudiya Sampradayam. I once asked a very nice ISKCON sannyasi about the same - if they respect Srivaishnavism so much, why should they initiate disciples from SV, instead of just asking them to just follow the Srivaishnava Matham? His answer was, disciples even from Srivaishnava families unconditionally surrender to Him explaining their lack of interest in SV, he initiates > them only then. I couldn't doubt Him. > > 3) Granted, there are many positively influential points in ISKCON that we learn from - food-style, commitment, etc. Unfortunately we are losing many of our brethen - young and old alike to a different sampradayam with philosophies and practices orthogonal to ours. > > Dasan, > Kidambi Soundararajan. > > > > Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam > http://www.vedics.net > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS > > > Visit your group "ramanuja" on the web. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Yahoo! Photos > Got holiday prints? See all the ways to get quality prints in your hands ASAP. > Azhvar EmberumAnAr JeeyAr ThiruvadigalE Saranam http://www.vedics.net Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ramanuja/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: ramanuja-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
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