Dear Sri Kidambi Soundararajan,
Thanks for your reply, of course I understand that you too hold
Gaudiyas in high respect. Let me make it clear that I in no way am
trying to find fault with you or others, but I merely feel that
their sampradaayam deserved defending on this issue (although
perhaps it is presumptuous of me to do so!). Maybe I have a soft
spot for their 'liberal values' as you call them due to being
brought up in the UK, but hopefully I will try and make my point
without bias.
Coming to your point on women and yagnyopaveetam: I am fearful
of this descending into the usual "why women shouldn't chant vedas"
debate but since you asked I am suggesting some references. I don't
know if this is the exact pramANam ISKCON use but it's a guess.
Anyone familiar with the major upanishads will know of the
figures of Gargi and Maitreyi. These women were instrumental in
bringing about the existence of the respective upanishads they are
in, they asked the very questions that needed to be answered.
As a result this would obviously imply that since these women
were the first to utter these veda mantras, perhaps they would claim
that there cannot be a blanket ban on women chanting the Vedas.
Like I said, I don't know their pramaaNam, but this is my guess.
Also you may be able to find articles on "Women and the Vaidika
Matham" or some similar title by Sriman Sadagopan Swami on the
bhakti list archives, in which he even gives an account in the Vedas
of women performing yagnyas. In this article, the 'rishikas'
(female rishis) responsible for receiving the revelation of certain
Veda mantras are also discussed - again implying that women would
have chanted these mantras (However, I do not take this to presume
that Sriman Sadagopin Swami's views agree with ISCKON's, it would be
presumptuous of me to make such a guess). If ISCKON wanted to use
the above as a shastraic justification, I think this is very
convincing (although as with everything, needs to be discussed by
the acharyas of the respective mathams in depth).
Again your statement "why should they give brahmana initiation to
everyone" that troubles me somewhat, I think I went into some detail
in my previous email describing that they most certainly do not give
it to *everyone*. Those who get it are very strictly vetted and
they are made to show their committment to living the vedic life.
Which is much more than can be said for today's birth brahmin
community, as a whole. I certainly know relatives who got rid of
their 'pooNal' as soon as they were sure no-one was looking! I am
sure many of you can relate similar experiences.
In the ISKCON community, I think it is only the people who do
deity worship that are given brahmana initiation. Again like I
said, the ones who are fully prepared to live the *strict* Vedic
lifestyle. Most lay devotees do not get brahmana initiation, and
the only mantra they will chant is the Hare Krishna mantra. In fact
the Gaudiya matha are so good at safeguarding Vedas only to those
with brahmana initiation that many lay devotees don't even know any
quotes from the Vedas!!!
It seems to me your worry is with the idea that they give
brahmana initiation to any non-Indian/brahmin jaati people *at
all*. Well, I have seen their pramANam for this: take a look at the
Satyakaama Jabala episode in Chaandogya upanishad (what more
authority do they need?) and the Vajrasuchika upanishad. In the
former, Satyakama Jabala, though of questionable parentage, was
given upanayanam and studied the Vedic wisdom with his teacher.
Therefore, ISCKON may cite this as proving that brahmaNa status
isn't only by birth. Again, I am not saying this is my view (I
haven't made my mind up yet!) but I am saying - there are certainly
arguments to support the ISCKON view.
This is what I mean by a firm shastraic footing - I don't think
we can claim that the Gaudiyas don't have this shastraic backing. I
think we need to be careful that our cultural upbringing doesn't get
projected onto our expectations of what we think shaastras *should*
say. Needless to say, understanding the Vedas and shaastras is a
complex issue and needs to be done with the help of Vedic scholars
and achaaryas themselves - but let us not presume that ISCKON
doesn't have any Vedic scholars of its own - do we know they don't
for sure?
If you are referring to the dharmashaastra injunctions saying
only birth-dvijas and men should chant Vedas - ok then, once every
one of us birth brahmins is actually keeping every single rule of
every dharmashaastra (I bet less than 1% of actual birth brahmins
are even getting close to succeeding in this), then I will agree
that we are in a position to criticise the ISCKON sampradaayam on
this. But not until then.
Again I submit this with the utmost respect for yourself and the
other learned members and hope that it is taken in the spirit of
enquiry and debate, please forgive me if any offence is caused.
sarvAparAdhAn kShamasva
namO naaraayaNaaya
aaNDaaL tiruvaDigalE sharaNam
with praNaamams,
Ranjan
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